AIP-316: Fantasy MMORPG Game - Powered Exclusively By ApeCoin

Hey fam, I have added a new section with additional game related info. Your thoughts are welcome!


Hey guys, I have updated the new section with LOTS of additional data:


Based on some discussions that I am having with several people regarding this AIP, I have been adding sections of clarity to the AIP follow-up sections above. Similarly, I want to clear up some things here and which aren’t material to the AIP itself.

Yes - the game’s visuals look dated - because they are. That’s the whole point of the ongoing work which, as I pointed out above in my 2-part Q&A, eclipse the actual dev work.

To be clear, the game isn’t being “upscaled” for the rerelease in order to improve on the visuals. No, that’s not it.

The game already works at higher resolutions, all the way up to 4K, and looks fabulous on mobile devices. And no, there’s no mobile or browser version of the game, but I can run it on a mobile device in my lab using cloud streaming tools. The client also runs on Steam Deck, which is a mobile device. And getting it on cloud services is part of my long-term planning, ahead of any native UE5 build.

Improving on creative content such as 3D models in a game goes beyond higher graphics cap. For example, a typical model with 100 polys and low res texture set, isn’t going to look any better by just using higher res textures and materials. It just isn’t. Sure, you can use some middleware tools to increase poly count and then create all-new textures, but it’s a lot more work than just creating a new 100K poly model with high res textures - from scratch. It just looks nicer and cleaner. And that’s what we’re doing.

I made this clear in the AIP, and also explained why I didn’t rerelease the game after buying it.

And the way the game is designed, replacing content goes like this:

  • create a new 3D asset, retain original filename for the base model
  • create textures, materials etc for new model
  • export to game engine format
  • copy exported assets to game’s asset folder, overwriting the pre-existing asset name
  • fire up the game’s editor (I posted a screen shot of this earlier) and load the game scene (world)
  • locate the named 3D model, which will now look exactly as it should in Max or Maya
  • locate the [deprecated] legal textures from the old model and delete them
  • done!

As to the above, if the model has animations, those would automatically be loaded with the new model, replacing the older version.

That’s it. What you see in the editor is exactly what you will see in the game client once the server/client folders are updated with the new assets created by the editor.

And just like that, you have a new model IN THE GAME. No coding required. None.

Added to that, in the AIP, I specifically provide access to all dev builds (alpha, beta etc) of the game so that the ApeCoin DAO - who will be spending this money to promote their community and token - can see, gauge, comment, review, test etc and work with me on improving this game.

Specifically, I wanted a Web3 community involved. I already explained why. Heck, I made this clear in my “testing the waters” thread, which I later withdrew instead of going through with it almost a month ago. This is no different from how I have done ALL my games over the years.

And also, the content creation teams are very experienced in what they do. It’s all out-sourced because it’s a lengthy and super expensive process. We’re not re-skinning a game. We’re literally putting on a new coat of a paint on a house we bought, while replacing some parts of the roof, and maybe doing some bathroom remodeling while we’re at it. Why? Because it’s better to spend $5M to remodel than to spend another $30M and maybe 10 yrs rebuilding something new. There’s a reason why teams and companies keep making the same games over and over and over again, yet call them sequels.

Though it was ever only released in North America because it wasn’t localized, Alganon was very popular when it was online. It’s what accounts for all the media, marketing, YT channels etc. I already posted some publicly available stats.

The game does not need to be popular to be successful. All it needs to do is recoup its costs - as it did before - be profitable enough to pay for its monthly costs. That’s the traditional MMO formula, and the same for any live service game.

Josh Bycer wrote a fantastic article on live service games. Please read it, as well as this one over at Tech Raptor. There are many more.

And while you’re at it, look at this WoW metrics chart. And that’s a game released in 2004 - six years before Alganon. In fact, the original team started working on Alganon shortly after WoW came out.

If your game costs $100K per month to run, and it’s making $25K per month in revenue, that game is going to fail and be taken off-line. That happens over and over again. But if your game costs $100K per month to run, and it’s making $105K per month in revenue, you keep building on that game because new things means new money. Why else did I do no less than two expansion packs? We didn’t do a second one because we were losing money.

And brand and gamer loyalty goes a long way to sustainability of games. I should know. I’ve been making the same type of games for the same people for decades. And they never let me down. Not once. And it’s not just about loyalty, it’s about the fact that they know that I am an exceptionally dedicated and focused person when it comes to my projects.

Yes, the game has been off-line for a number of years. Yes, it has to re-engage the install base. Yes, it’s going to need additional marketing. Basically, the rerelease is like starting over - except we are starting from a previous checkpoint instead of from the beginning of the game. I could have just rereleased it - as is - and made some money. And that’s what you call a cash grab.

However, for the purposes of this AIP - which is a marketing and promo proposal - the whole point boils down to this two simple things:

  • How can Alganon help promote & build ApeCoin DAO & $APE token?
  • How can ApeCoin DAO help improve and speed up the Web3 release of Alganon?

That’s how a partnership works.

If Yuga Labs was focused on just NFTs for revenues and they were convinced that was the single source of revenue to boost their IP and indeed $APE, they wouldn’t be making games. Especially not for a small audience. So, yes, while those games aren’t popular, as I posted in my stats, they were enough to increase the otherwise stagnant Ape audience. Though not to the levels of even the worst Web3 games, let alone any Web2 game that has access to that stellar team and capital pit.

My point is that there are all kinds of marketing. Some hit and some don’t. And no matter how you look at it - and there are metrics for this btw - it always comes down to gaming. Always.

So, Alganon doesn’t need millions in MAU for it to be a marketing “success” for ApeCoin. In fact, it’s not even relevant how well the game performs. What’s relevant is that you do things and take steps that will “market and promote” ApeCoin. Right now, that’s not happening. At all. And obviously going by the stagnant Ape ecosystem and the rapidly falling $APE token, something isn’t working.

I believe that there’s going to be a LOT of noise once we get to the stage whereby we start showing off new content in images, videos etc. It’s specifically why I haven’t made any official public announcement, and everything out there about the game, comes from Steam and my social media feeds. And that noise is how people get to learn about ApeCoin how - and why - the hell did Derek Smart end up in Web3? The industry knows that I am a technologist, so, it makes sense that I would want to do this. My way. I never - ever - do something that I don’t believe in.

And even so, I’m not telling them anything yet because I know that they won’t get it and also they’re going to be very upset with me over that whole Web3 thing. Until they get to play the game again and realize my vision of what I wanted to do.

This was a bulletin from back in Aug 2022 (this DAO was barely about three months old then) after the server move & upgrade and the game & game services were updated, having been online and in dev for months prior.

And guess what? Go to Google and run some metrics on ApeCoin or anything related to this ecosystem. Those metrics aren’t even a blip on a chart because nobody cares but those of us in this 130K Ape cluster.

And if ApeCoin DOA was foolish enough to pay an influencer $83K per month for “promos”, guess what that would do? Nothing. Why? Because that influencer is still going to be catering to the same 130K cluster - and maybe a few interested people who wouldn’t see any value in buying $APE when there’s no tangible utility to the token.

I’m sorry, but staking your $APE isn’t going to save your bags. Nobody is coming to save your bags. And worrying about the LP and thus not spending the treasury isn’t going to change that. I have seen the math. The math doesn’t lie. The token is on a steady and protracted decline straight to $0 unless and until this DAO stops looking to Yuga Labs to do all the work. That’s like this guy:

This DAO needs to do something

  • Something DIFFERENT
  • Something BOLD
  • Something NEW
  • Something WEIRD
  • Something HARD

Spending a few thousand Dollars here and there is how we end up in death by a thousand cuts. Who benefits the most? Certainly not the DAO. It’s the grantees. Don’t take my word for it, go pull up all the funded AIPs, run up the numbers and draw your own conclusions. I’ve done that - because I’m nuts like that. And it’s a very bleak picture because not a single one of those AIPs has moved the Ape adoption needle. Why? Because they’re catering to us - in this cluster.

And guess what? If the token does crater next year - as many expect that it will - Alganon will still come out and with someone else’s token because I have no intentions of doing an ICO. Here and now, we have a unique chance to build a partnership that lasts years, instead of the length of a tik-tok video.

And unlike many others who just breeze in and out of here, I will always be around because I am always dedicated to what I do. I am not a fairweather friend. Love me or hate me, I’m the guy who will always be around. I’m neither a diplomat nor a politician, so I don’t have to cater to people’s feelings. I cater to what produces results.

I will make this clear once again.

The price of the license to do everything I listed for ApeCoin, is $5M. And it’s non-negotiable.

Those of you suggesting that I reduce it and give it a better chance of passing, are missing the point.

I could no more do a $2M for 2 yr license that stands some chance of passing than a $5M for 5 yrs license which stands little to no chance of passing. So why waste my time on that? Again, I didn’t pick a number out of a hat.

I mean, if I wanted to change my roof and my roofer says it’s 10K, then the price is 10K and I trust that he knows what he’s talking about. And maybe we haggle a litte because sometimes prices can be adjusted. But regardless, I still wouldn’t care what my gardener thinks because he’s not a roofer.

That’s another example of something someone floated to me. My question was, why on Earth would I tie my game to a token that’s fast cratering? Where’s the logic and sense in that? That’s like putting a banner on the side of a bus that’s heading for the scrap yard. So maybe the people on the bus route see the banner. Then it’s gone.

Here, this is our token as of this writing. Does that tell you anything?

So, no, I’m not doing that. ApeCoin couldn’t even pay me $2M just to use $APE. The DAO is better off spending that money on an influencer who is only going to care until the $APE funded fleeting moment comes and goes. Like a whisper. In the rain.

I mean, if I wanted to use someone else’s token for a fee, I wouldn’t be writing this AIP. There are so many tokens out there by a bunch of “crypto bros” that I have grown tied of saying “Yeah, no. Not doing that”. My bizdev manager and I get those all the time.

So, no, me using the token isn’t going to benefit me nor ApeCoin. What I do believe will benefit the DAO is a protracted engagement campaign like my proposal. That’s it. Again, nobody is coming to save us and no number of micro AIPs are going to change that.

We should build this. Together. I can do it. You just have to believe that I can do it. And if you don’t believe, then just vote no. But I don’t believe that doing a lower AIP that stands some chance of passing, is fair to the DAO and to my project. - and so I should make promises that I know stand a higher chance of failure. Not going to do that.

And it’s why I considered the milestone payment schedule - over 9 months - so that I can show that I believe in what I’m trying to do, that it can be done, it’s being done, and it will yield tangible results that benefit the DAO on a long-term basis. And all through the dev process, those of you interested in playing and testing it, can do so. Starting from the Web2 build all the way to the rerelease of our Web3 component rerelease.

I will add more comments as I continue to get feedback outside of this AIP.


Hi @SmartAPE - thanks for thinking of and including us here. A few thoughts both as a community member, and then specific to potential partnership opportunities re: marketplace integration:

As a community member:

  1. I’m excited about this proposal as fundamentally different & bolder then many that have come before it, creating a (potentially) meaningful and ongoing use case for $APE
  2. That said, $5M is a lot, is there any opportunity to reduce the up front and make the rest of the reward contingent on completion of milestones? This could be either deliverables, ie. completion of phase 3 /4, or game use milestones, ie. $100,000 in $APE spent in-game


  1. if passed - we’d love to support this, and actually just released our first SDK to let a key partner (launching later this month) integrate highly customized listing + purchasing flows into in-game environments. We’re happy to develop a similar component for the core marketplace shopping page & experience if it makes sense to reduce total dev cost.
  2. regardless - I’d love to chat about an opportunity to support what you’re building!
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Thanks for recognizing and acknowledging the AIP for what it is.

I am, and always have been, a visionary with grand ideas. I pride myself in knowing a little about a lot. And while I may not have found the big leagues success as some of my friends who I started out with, that was a personal choice because I wanted to remain an indie in charge of my own fate, to make the games that I wanted to make, and for the number of people who kept buying them. I have been doing that for over three decades, and so, love me or hate me, I hope that counts for something. Plus, I never - ever - give up on anything. Ever.

That attitude is in this AIP.

I don’t need money from the DAO to finish the project. As I pointed out above, the extra funding not only speeds up the process, but it also allows me to implement ApeCoin specific features and activities which were never originally in the budget.

And I have to say this again. Some [trusted] people here - including Yat - have seen the original pitch docs for this project. I didn’t create this AIP out of thin air, nor on a whim. It was already a massive project, and I figured that short of writing 50K word missives about this, that or the other, that I could do something tangible for this DAO and to prove a specific point.

I believe - as I have said since I came here a month ago - that this is the project that is likely to make the biggest TANGIBLE impact on the future of this DAO. And it’s not just one game. While I lack the resources to develop two games at a time, both Alganon and Line Of Defense - developed by different studios - are 100% completed Web2 games. So, if things go as I planned, there’s another game down the road right after Alganon.

And as I said above, in both cases: “we are starting from a previous checkpoint instead of from the beginning of the game.”

I have had many exchanges with various people who have asked me how to make this work for less than $5M. So, I created 9-month milestones (not sure if you saw them).

Here is the project’s milestone schedule. Again, this is in the original 2021 pitch deck viewed by some of our members here; I didn’t just come up with it.

The only deviation thus far in that plan is that the risks of porting TV3D directly to UE5 were too great, and are likely to cause months of slippage - which would need to be funded. So, I opted that we would do both graphics engine ports in parallel. This allows us to release the game (with ported TV3D) sooner, then release the UE5 update as a patch either standalone or via an expansion pack as we did in 2015 for the game’s 2nd expansion pack. Remember, this is an MMO which has no less than 9 different tools/engines in it, with the graphics engine being just one component which can be revised without affecting any other component in the game engine suite.

For reference, we are currently working on phase 2 & 3 in parallel due to the sheer amount of content that needs to be re-created by our third-party content providers. We went from deciding to improve upon about less than 1000 of the key 2D/3D art components, to throwing in the towel and just doing the entire asset dB which is over 1800 (!) individual assets. It’s not a small game.

I am offering a license to the DAO for the use of my game in the promotion of its IP and token. I value that to be worth $5M, and the funds are required to do everything that I said I would do for the DAO. To a billion Dollar market cap entity with a little over $350M in liquidity, it’s a drop in the bucket. It’s just math.

Also, don’t forget that I structured this deal this way because the DAO isn’t setup as a corp entity that can do all the things (servers, marketing, CS team etc) that I am doing as part of this partnership. I am saddled with doing everything - including things that I normally wouldn’t do in a standard licensing deal which I have done for my other games around the world. Usually, you negotiate, set a fee, it gets paid (usualy down payment and periodic payments over time, based on revenue etc), you send them the game client. You don’t need to do anything else because the rest of the work is up to the licensee. It’s just like buying or licensing the rights to a book or script to make a movie.

PLUS, I committed to hiring up to 16 experienced and capable people from this DAO so that they can reap the tangible benefits of this deal because not everyone wants to buy and stake their token or NFT.

PLUS, I committed to integrating other AIP tangible builders (such as your marketplace) - regardless of their success - in this project.

And unlike Web3 entities giving out micro-grants (I have received and rejected several grant & investment offers for token use) for the use of their token, I have zero interest in that because it’s not efficient use of the DOA treasury. OK, so I ask for and get $1M to use the $APE token. That’s it. I wouldn’t have to do anything else but use the token in the game. How does that serve the DAO’s best interests? How does that promote $APE adoption when it’s just an alt payment option?

I have been at this far too long to fall into the trap of taking what you get now, then go figure the rest out. I simply won’t do that because it’s not how you build trust. Just because it’s Web3 doesn’t mean I get to throw my integrity and rep out the window. I already have a lot riding on this project, and I’m going to get a lot of hate down the road over my integrating Web3 components into this game.

I am not here on a cash grab, I am here to build a partnership. I withdrew my candidacy from both the Ape Assembly and the Metaverse Working Group not only because I have issues with the processes (esp the voting) but because I don’t believe that they will bring tangible benefits to the DAO.

Regardless, I expect that the AIP will ultimately fail, but it is what it is. Regardless, I will certainly be around here as a member of the DAO. And when the token eventually craters because no bold actions were taken to help it, I will be the one writing up 50K word missives which all amount to “Gee, I told you so”. At least until the SEC and CTFC eventually get around to killing it.

We need to do this. And we need to figure out how to make it work. I am open to suggestions, but I fear that no matter what we do, it is likely to fail because the costs would still be too high for those who are focused on preserving the treasury LP and their bags. So, why even bother?

One option that someone else floated to me was to reduce the license term (from 5 years to 2 years) and leave it up to the DAO to renew the license as it sees fit. That’s all well and good, but given the costs of the additional resources (servers, maintenance, CS team for ApeCoin etc), how exactly would that even work? Even if I did it for $2M over 2 years - renewable - I would still be taking risks. Plus, I would be spending more on the ApeCoin DAO incentives than on the use of the license. How does that benefit me, exactly? And what happens if/when DAO ceases to exist within that term?

For example, back in May, AIP-209 passed for $480K with 59.09%.

The Ape Accelerator (Ape Launchpad) is designed to help strengthen the ApeCoin and BAYC ecosystem by incubating and facilitating projects that contribute to, and utilize, ApeCoin and BAYC IP ecosystem growth. Projects looking to launch through the Ape Accelerator will require $APE token to submit a proposal, and holders of $APE and BAYC Ecosystem NFTs will be able to access the launchpad to invest in these projects.”

And this is how they were going to do it. Build from scratch. And that was a 6 months budget. Then what?

Basically a kickstarter for ApeCoin projects. It’s anyone’s guess how that’s going to go. Meanwhile, while there are hundreds of projects building on Polygon, IMX, Sui and so many others, there’s literally nobody beating on the $APE door to build projects for it. Why does anyone think that is?

In Alganon, we have a game here and now. Though it’s not ready for Web3 launch yet, it still gives our ApeCoin DAO access to a game that they can do a myriad of things in while helping us fashion it for the future end result. Plus, the primary reason why even Yuga’s own games aren’t moving the needle is because they’re all competitive games. Even the recently announced Wrecked League which itself has been in dev for quite some time now. Right there, you already removed a massive portion of gamers because, aside from the fact that e-sports games are all but dead as a going concern, making even more competitive games - in Web3 - is just barking up a tree while catering to the same 130K Ape cluster. How is that a growth plan? Alganon is an all-encompassing experience in a massively popular game genre. Yes, it’s not the best game, but it doesn’t have to be. I don’t eat fast food, so Burger King commercials don’t do anything for me. I never saw one of their commercials and thought “Yeah, amma go grab that and shove it into my mouth”. But that doesn’t make them bad to others. It’s just a choice.

As a dev yourself, I whole-heartedly invite you - and other devs here who are familiar with milestones in a dev environment - to come up with ideas on how you would structure this project based on milestones and payments. And in there, you can reduce the license fee as-needed. Then we get to have a dialog over what I can or cannot do - and why.

As to

The reason that I flagged this one is because we have no plans in building our own NFT marketplace. It’s why I looked at and we evaluated various third-party offerings; and then settled on Altura’s (they are local to me here in Florida) solutions which comes with a wallet and white label markeplace. It’s why I have partnerships with the likes of KapitalDAO’s Fenryr group who has very talented people to help us navigate the Web3 landscape for such things. I figured that since your team already had an Ape branded marketplace, that integrating that into the game’s pre-existing marketplace, also allows a prosperous collab between ApeCoin grantees. And ofc, that’s money coming out of our grant and paying for such things. Again, giving something back that goes towards the DAO’s prosperity.

And yes, regardless of the fate of this AIP, we can schedule a date/time to have a chat about a collab. I will send you a DM to set something up.

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Hi @SmartAPE,

Your topic will be moving to the AIP Draft phase in less than 24 hours. Are you content with the feedback received or do you wish to extend community discussion for another 7 days?

If we do not hear from you within 48 hours after your topic closes, your topic will be moved straight to the AIP Draft process.

We look forward to hearing from you.


Hi ApeCoin DAO Community,

@SmartAPE has requested to extend the community discussion period for this AIP idea. This topic will automatically close a further 8 days from now. We encourage the community to continue to engage in thoughtful discussions through constructive criticism, honest feedback, and helpful suggestions.

Follow this Topic as further updates will be posted here in the comments.


Hi All - after speaking with some people - the reason that I had to extend this AIP - I have now reduced the license term from 5 to 2 years. I also provide a breakdown of the costs. You can easily see why the original AIP was asking for $1M per year over 5 years. As I stated before, I didn’t pick a number out of a hat.

Reducing this to two 2 years could also create a shortfall due to price fluctuations. This means that cuts may have to be made somewhere along the line. These costs would have been amortized across 5 years - with no shortfall. However, post-launch I do expect to cover any shortfall in the game’s revenue as I expect game’s earnings - even at its worst case scenario - to remain stable.

For the record, I don’t believe that this is the best path forward due to the uncertainty surrounding this [young] DAO as a going concern because if the DAO were to be dissolved, this license would automatically terminate.


So, it’s public now, so I can post this.

Xsolla payments which we integrated into both Alganon and LoD after Steam said no Web3 games, now supports crypto payments via Which means that we can basically chain it and allow payments via any coin that’s supported.

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That’s excellent. So this integration would then allow for listing on Steam? (Just to verify that I’m interpreting this correctly.)

No, it won’t because Steam’s ban is not about the payment method, it’s about a game having any Web3 component. That means anything with a blockchain or crypto payments.

What this Xsolla feature does is allow the on-boarding of various payment methods supported by without having to support one coin only. Basically, any coin/token supported by can be accepted as a form of payment in Xsolla.

We implemented Xsolla payments support back in 2015


Then Valve made us remove it because they wanted all games to use Steam Wallet. So, we disabled it and re-enabled it for this Web3 version and disabled Steam Wallet.


More to the point, because a LOT of games use Xsolla, this feature is just going to further push tokens like $APE into extinction because there’s seemingly no value to using one coin/token over another.

This is a BFD. Even bigger than PayPal issuing a USD stablecoin last week.


Excellent! Thank you for the clarification on both Xsolla and Steam.


Hi @SmartAPE! Thanks so much for bringing your game to the DAO! I do think gaming is a big part of the future of Web3 if it is going to be successful and seems like a logical step for gaming to incorporate NFTs due to their benefits such as verifiable ownership, scarcity, provenance & authenticity, interoperability, etc.

However, current sentiment within the gaming community towards NFTs and crypto appears pretty negative and that’s a big hurdle to mass adoption. Do you see this game being powered exclusively by ApeCoin as potentially limiting it’s success? Since we’re in a bear market, the number of people actively engaged in Web3 is relatively low and those outside Web3 would have to be onboarded to crypto and ApeCoin in order to participate.

Does this mean the Marketing and Comms working group would need to budget for the marketing of your game and if so, how much do you expect that the game would need?

Being that the Marketing and Comms working group is not up and running and it will take some time until it’s fully functioning with an approved budget, do you see this as a potential challenge to onboarding people to play?

Thanks again for your proposal and looking forward to your insights!

1 Like

Interesting :fire:. I almost gave up reading this


Hi @adventurousape - thanks for taking the time to read the AIP. I know it’s exceptionally detailed, but I am a clarity kinda guy. :slight_smile:

Plausible concerns, indeed. But here’s the beauty of it…

Alganon is a “Web2 MMORPG game with Web3 components”. I could release it as planned in 2024 without the Web3 components and it would be the same game. In fact, the way it’s engineered, simple build flags are all it takes to disable the Web3 components (except for the Web3 wallet which is integrated in the pre-existing Web2 wallet - still need to work on a build flag for that at some point).

I did it this way because my “Game First” approach to Web3 - which I have written extensively about - requires that a good game should always come first. The tech stack is largely irrelevant. As are the Web3 components. And this is why, instead of starting from a new game, spending millions of Dollars and several years on an experiment, I decided to re-purpose these two Web2 games. So, the game neither relies on nor requires Web3 for it’s success or failure.

Also, the game’s design as an MMO, already had all the components required for implementing a pass-through Web3 tech stack. This means that, if I so choose, we could very well deploy different game servers and clients. e.g. a Web2 or Web3 version. This is basically similar to legacy and modern versions of various MMO games.

During the course of gameplay, a player wouldn’t notice any of the Web3 components unless they choose to. e.g. You could start the game, create a character, and go explore, quest, trade etc. and never encounter any Web3 components. You would only encounter those components if you actually do anything that triggers them.

For example, when you create a game account, you get an in-game wallet (Web2) and inventory stack. When you buy in-game currency, it’s that wallet that is used. If you however decide to trade in certain items which are tagged as NFTs, then an in-game Web3 wallet is automatically created for you within the same UI/UX as the Web3 wallet. You fund that wallet in the same manner that you would the Web2 wallet and you can transfer funds between the two. Your Web2 wallet and in-game ($TRIBUTE) currency remain in the Web2 wallet, while your NFTs and token ($APE) currency remain in the Web3 wallet.

Similarly, the game’s Web2 marketplace UI/UX works the same way. As you can see above, it also has web access and is identical to the in-game version. The Web3 version of that marketplace is going to be using a third-party White label Web3 marketplace SDK. So, you will see a tab specifically for NFTs in both the in-game and web versions of the marketplace. And you will be able to trade those NFTs with other players or sell them back to the game’s marketplace.

The game’s loot drops (via questing, kills etc) are also geared toward both Web2 and Web3 components. So, if you get a Web3 item - but you don’t have a Web3 wallet setup - it still goes into your inventory allowing you to later decide if you want to trade it or keep it. And then you need to activate your in-game Web3 wallet.

I have millions of Dollars and several years of my life invested in this game. Unlike some lucky studios who have the luxury of seeing several titles fail, I have never had that luxury. And for that reason, I tend to think carefully through what I do with my games so that I always have a “In case of emergency, pull lever” plan of action. My foray into Web3 is no different.

As to using $APE, that’s not relevant because the token used is of no consequence. It’s just a game that uses fiat or crypto currency as-needed. If the AIP doesn’t pass, which means that I won’t use $APE, I will just end up using $MATIC, $TLOS or $SUI - all of which we’ve run tests with. The difference with those tokens is that they don’t have a centralized community like ApeCoin does. And we have to do a lot more work to cultivate a Web3 install base to complement and merge with the Web2 install base. It’s specifically why I came here; because I believe that the key to wide Web3 gaming success lies in the merge of both factions - in a good game that isn’t Web3 in your face.

TL;DR is that Alganon neither needs nor requires Web3. And it never did. The second game, won’t be any different in this regard.

ps. If you take a look at the marketing push currently going on for nWay’s Wreck League, you will see similar sentiments regarding Web2 vs Web3. And that game, over two years in the making, started out as a pure Web3 game when it was all the rage. You have to adapt to market conditions. And you have to be quick about it - or your project is dead. Most Web3 games don’t have the luxury of that pivot, and that’s why they’re either dead or dying.

I have said this over and over again, there is no Web3 gaming without core Web2 gamers.

No, it’s unrelated. All games are marketed. Alganon is no different. It’s why I mentioned in the AIP that we would add ApeCoin and $APE to our marketing effort so far as to include mentions of them. But we will not be advertising obo of the DAO. So, it’s up to the DAO to undertake that effort as it sees fit via it’s own marketing initiatives (e.g. Web3 influencers, social media, Spaces etc).

And no, we don’t need the DAO to on-board gamers. It’s only a license. The additional costs (laid out above) are due to the fact that the DAO isn’t setup to

  1. Acquire and maintain its own game servers + infrastructure

  2. Have its own trained staff to support the DAO community of gamers

All gaming licensees, which are always full-blown corps, have all of the above. And it’s impractical - if not impossible - to sit around and wait for the DAO to do any of the above via a voting system that’s as unpredictable as it is ludicrous.

You’re welcome. As I will not be extending this AIP again, hopefully more questions will come in before it goes to draft tomorrow.

To be clear, this AIP is truly a test of the DAO’s future as a going concern. I don’t expect that it will pass nor do I need it to pass in order to do what I need to do with the game. The singular failure will be that I don’t get the close-knit Web3 community with a vested interest in the game. That aside from the loss of a massive impact of tangible benefits to the community via the [paid] ApeCoin Ambassadors hired to build the community through the game. If the DAO isn’t brave enough to embark on something like this - even as Yuga Labs is spending millions of Dollars on smaller games - then everyone needs to take a step back and ask “What are we doing, and why are we even here?”

There is not likely to be another opportunity like this because games take a very long time to make, cost a lot, and are a massive risk from start to finish. This is a $30M (from its inception to present day) game with a $250K per year license to a DAO that needs to break out in a big way.

ps. This just in:

Grand Theft Auto dev Take-Two’s first crypto game launching on Ethereum


Great! This was a test. There will be a quiz next week. :stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye:

Thank you for the detailed reply. I’m a detailed orientated person, so love the clarity. :slightly_smiling_face:

I don’t know if the DAO will vote for this or not, but appreciate you putting this forth and good luck.

Wow, thanks for sharing! That’s huge! So glad to see them entering the space. :clap:

Hi @SmartAPE,

Your topic will be moving to the AIP Draft phase in less than 24 hours. Are you content with the feedback received or do you wish to extend community discussion for another 7 days?

If we do not hear from you within 48 hours after your topic closes, your topic will be moved straight to the AIP Draft process.

We look forward to hearing from you.


@adventurousape You’re welcome.

I am not confident that it will pass; but someone suggested that if it fails, I should consider creating a new AIP just for a grant to use $APE as the game’s official token; much like grants given out by some chains to use their chain or token. But doing that takes away my primary incentive (which isn’t money) for bringing this project here in the first place. And if I wanted to do that, like others before me, I would have taken chain/token grants or partnerships long before now.

Yeah, it’s big news. Also, there’s this…

Metaverse momentum and alliances drive $297 million Web3 game investments in July 2023

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@adventurousape Justin (nWay) posted this on LinkedIn a week ago.

Most of us who have been doing this for decades now, do know that without an engaging community, your game - regardless of how great it is - will die. Period.