AIP-378: ApeChain Bid // ApeChain Developed with Arbitrum Technology with Growth Led by Horizen Labs

$APE as the gas token

Love this section!


The proposal looks very solid, I just have one major question to AIP proposers and DAO members: don’t you all think there should be a substantial and formal endorsement by Yuga Labs to deploy this solution in all gaming projects - starting with Otherside - consistently with current development efforts?

To address the top strategical question “what for”.



What you mentioned in this list are NOT networks,
You mentioning list of layers, test chains and chains, as well as some using bridges or in need of them like this one: Getting Started on DFK Chain (New Users) | by DeFi Kingdoms | DeFi Kingdoms Official | Medium
Bridges can be very dangerous and they are centralised entities, as we saw in resent history some appeared to be actual RUGS.
About BNB chain - Apecoin already exists on it and staking opportunities for many regions were available even before contract. Not sure why you mention BNB coin right before that and saying its a network. Makes no sense.
Apecoin transactions on Polygon already exist long time ago.

Back to basics:

Arbitrum its just an L2 (layer 2) protocol on ETH blockchain to develop DAPs

All transaction are executed OFF-CHAIN using OPTIMISTIC ROLLUPS Optimistic Rollups |

Arbitrum usage in on AVM not EVM, but they make it compatible

Arbitrum right now has a extremely strong competition agains powerful L2 same style rollups like ZkSync, Loopring, Starware & Polygon HermeZ

The main problem with optimistioc rollups is the dispute window which is longer time allowing more sandwich attacks by whales, front run and other dispute issues , while more efficient L2s are using ZK-type

In the same time cryptographic scalability of optimistic rollups mind become popular eventually

Popular apps using L2 are Uniswap, Sushi & Aave

This would be interesting to see, love so many people exciting and want to work around Apechain!
Good luck guys

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Hi @TheFatherOfAllStorms, thanks for your response: we’re not suggesting actively supporting every chain on the list from our side; just providing a list of different chains supported by LayerZero overall so everyone can understand the range of possibilities.

Regarding the dangers you outline, I think you’ll enjoy reading about the advances LayerZero brings as an oracle and relayer system. They have a lot of excellent documentation on their website, while this is a pretty good third-party summary.


Additionally, you can read about the OFT Standard here, and we are happy to talk more about what an officially sanctioned Adaptive OFT means for $APE.

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Between the team behind this proposal, the tech, the 0 cost to the DAO with potential grants from the Arbitrium Foundation, the focus on gaming, and the (likely) thumbs up from Yuga Labs, this one is my personal favorite out of all the three options that have been proposed so far (Arbitrium, Optimism, Polygon).

There also likely some alignment between this AIP and the one our team recently passed (AIP-326: Platform to Enable ApeCoin Powered Payments & Rewards for Apps & Games).

Will be a very close eye on this one and good luck with the AIP process!


Thanks to everyone who came to the first AMA today, really great discussion and a lot of solid questions, if you missed it you can find the recording here:

Please note that there will be another AMA on 12/14 at Noon, with a focus on gaming and ecosystem partners. Excited to see many of you there!


It would be really powerful if Yuga or Animoca came in supporting ApeChain.

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Quite an interesting proposal

just got bearish after hearing Airveys vision of ape chain, ngl

What was the vision and where was it stated?

Its was something about only bayc and mayc holders should have a say in what gets built. It was in the parallel x apecomm space this morning.

To clarify the part of BAYC and MAYC, there might be confusion with the fact that Horizen Labs did champion the token distribution process to community members, this did include 10,094 tokens allocated to each BAYC holder and 2,042 tokens allocated to each MAYC holder.
Regarding Governance Oversight, our suggestion is for the ApeCoin DAO to function as the primary governing body for ApeChain.
Hope this clarifies!


gm. I didn’t get pulled up on stage last time so dropping these initial Q’s here and in the forum for commentary from the Ape community and on Twitter for a broader audience.

I’lI preface this by saying that I think Arbitrum has one of the strongest engineering and research teams in the space, and I have personally been following their journey for quite a while – I remember watching Ed’s MOOC years back and later being pleasantly surprised after realizing he was part of Arbitrum when meeting the team at ETH Boston 2019.

The first question is to provide more transparency to the DAO of future implications, if any, regarding licenses.

:one: QUESTION 1 — Can you talk more about the licensing details for using Arbitrum and ApeChain? What does this mean for the near future — regarding making upgrades to the chain, forking parts of the software and or making it customizable.

For context to the audience, certain parts of Arbitrum use Business Source License (BSL) license, which is a commercial license and not as permissive as MIT etc.

Meaning that whoever wants to deploy an L2 would need a license from the Arbitrum foundation as stated in the tweet below. There has also been plenty of commentary on the topic by figures in the space — I, for one, remain neutral.

The second question is regarding gaming and technical development.

:two: Question 2 — Fundamentally, gaming and traditional market players (meaning Web2 companies) really don’t care about TVL or liquidity, and this has been proven more and more as we see deals such as Disney choosing @flow_blockchain (great work :clap:) which is top 60 in coinmarket cap. So, what will be the key differentiation besides cheap fast transaction and “good BD” — which are claims that most new L1’s and L2’s presently make. If there’s no clear answer yet, what’s your intuition on this.

The third question is an opinion / commentary question.
:three: Question 3 — why should the DAO not open the stage to other players, such as Rollup-as-a-Service (RaaS) companies like @Calderaxyz, @gelatonetwork, or @conduitxyz and allow them to propose deploying ApeChain, and working with a separate team or teams that oversee the execution and or driving the vision? This is the opposite of what’s happening now, where RaaS companies are almost a second thought — after all, we are working with open source software. This approach would be more distributed and decentralized then relying on committees.

This considering the fact the present proposals for the L2s simply propose low-cost fast transactions, which means that not much would be modified from an existing L2 architecture.

This also includes working with collective efforts such as the one supported by fellow APE Coin DAO member @Machibigbrother which are more distributed in nature.

The fourth question is technical.

:four: Question 4 — if we are targeting customizability and upgradeability of ApeChain, and most importantly targeting features in ApeChain that provide business / product value - why wouldn’t this L2 be developed using a fully-featured blockchain development SDK like the one’s offered by @avax (HyperSDK), @cosmos (Cosmos SDK) or @polkadot (Polkadot SDK) — listed alphabetically. All which have proven to be robust towards developing standalone L1s, Ethereum L2s and custom VM chains that are customizable and upgradeable.

This is particularly important as we see the debate over interoperability converging towards using interoperability protocols like @chainlink cross-chain interoperability protocol (CCIP), and @LayerZero_Labs omnichain interoperability protocol (mentioned in the proposal). To this end, we’d want ApeChain to be able to evolve with market demands or product demands — this could imply technical upgrades or customization.

Thanks. Looking forward to hearing from ya’ll :hand_with_index_finger_and_thumb_crossed:
For those apes reading these questions, feel free to have a peak at some of my initial writing regarding ApeChain and blockchains in general in the link below and keep an eye out regarding an article on DAOs — cheers.


Hi @ninarong ,

The community feedback period for your proposal would be ending in less than 24 hours.

  • If you’re content with the feedback received, your next steps are to finalize your proposal using the AIP Draft Template.

  • A moderator will reach out to the author to finalize the AIP Draft. Upon receipt of the final Draft, we will review and provide instructions on the next steps.

  • Are you ready to proceed to the next phase or do you wish to extend community discussion for another 7 days?

We look forward to hearing from you.


Hi ApeCoin DAO Community,

Edits have been made to this Topic by the author’s request.

You can click the Pencil icon at the top of the post to see these edits.

Follow this Topic as further updates will be posted here in the comments.

Kind Regards,


This topic was automatically closed after 7 days. New replies are no longer allowed.

Hi ApeCoin DAO Community,

@ninarong has completed editing their AIP Idea to be their AIP Draft.

This proposal has been assigned the AIP ID Number 378.

Follow this Topic as further updates will be posted here in the comments.

Kind Regards,


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