An Open Letter from bc

Let me start by prefixing this open letter by stating, everything below is simply an opinion, it is not legal advice, it is not financial advice, in fact, it is not advice of any kind, on any topic. This is simply a digest of thoughts that are meant to help frame how one could think about the topic of a DAO, Foundation Company, a brand-new industry, navigating unknown unknowns, and a possible vision of what’s next.

An Open Letter to ApeCoin DAO,

I am uncharacteristically writing and publishing my thought stream.

I think it is helpful to start with some definitions (I reiterate, this is not any sort of advice).

Organization: an organization is a body of entities (people, companies or even, computers powered by logic gates and soon AI) that share a particular purpose (e.g., a government is an organization).

Autonomous: freedom to govern itself or its own affairs. Theoretically every person is autonomous to govern their lives, and every company is autonomous to govern itself (e.g., Apple is autonomous to set its goals to maximize profit for shareholders by creating advanced technology that they sell to people and companies around the world, arguably Apple is pretty successful in their autonomy).

Decentralized: controlled by several local offices or authorities rather than one single one.

Decentralized Autonomous Organization (“DAO”): By using the definitions above and applying them to the industry we all love and are working extremely hard to responsibly pioneer, we can define a DAO as a collection of Public Keys that are collectively empowered to make decisions on behalf of itself. A DAO, when setup correctly, is fully decentralized by the fact that no one entity can control the collection of Public / Private Keys, it is autonomous because those collection of Public Keys can make real time decisions (as represented by a majority vote, or any other governing framework) that govern its own affairs and it is an organization because there exists a body of entities that share a common purpose (propelling the ApeCoin DAO to be the cultural leader in the crypto space).

A Foundation Company: A legal entity that can bridge the new world of DAOs and interface in the real-world legal frameworks that underpin the entire fabric of society. In some cases, and specifically in the ApeCoin DAOs case, this entity must be professionally administered and protected at all costs from known known, known unknown and unknown unknown risks. In the ideal use case, the administration of this entity should not be done by itself but rather create further separation by outsourcing these administerial functions to a competent third party that operates directly from within the jurisdiction that the entity is formed in. Explaining why strategic and executional jurisdictional presence is very important is outside the scope of this letter but feel free to research economic substance, tax law and jurisdictional regulatory laws.

In my view (again not legal advice), the DAO is the binding for the Foundation Company . The Foundation is a legally registered company. Paraphrasing, The Ape Foundation’s corporate mission, is to administer a pool of resources that should be deployed for the betterment of the DAO. That is to say, the Ape Foundation exists exclusively to serve the will of the DAO which is collectively expressed via some form of a democratic voting system, in our current case, SnapShot (more on system tooling below).

This separation is extremely important to understand, so I will reiterate it, the DAO is fully decentralized, the DAO is the binding for the Ape Foundation, the DAO has total influence over the resources under the Ape Foundation, the DAO has full autonomy to decide what direction resources should be deployed, the Ape Foundation cannot make resource management decisions without clear instructions from the DAO (currently expressed by a binary vote on SnapShot).

In terms of resources at its disposal, the Ape Foundation is one of the largest in the world, which makes it one of the most important entities that needs to be protected at all costs in the entire ecosystem. The brilliance of the structure of the Ape Foundation is that NO one entity can make arbitrary decisions about resource deployment or management. The Special Council exists to make sure that nothing can get to a vote unless it is properly researched for risk to the Ape Foundation.

The Special Council also has no authority to make any significant resource allocation decisions without going through an AIP. In fact, the Special Council arguably has no authority to steer direction or execute a strategy they believe is correct without first securing approval from the DAO itself. This makes the Special Council unlike any traditional corporate structure board in the world. In my humble opinion, the design of the Special Council, the Foundation, and Administrator is the most amazing innovation in corporate governance I have ever seen, the entire traditional governing power dynamic has been removed and given directly back to the collective.

Reading through all the nominee pitches, I worry that two risks exist.

One, almost everyone believes that getting on the Special Council will give them some sort of authority to make big changes to the Ape Foundation. It is entirely unclear to me why anyone would want to do this, as the Ape Foundation currently serves the DAO, operationalizing the Ape Foundation with direct employees will expose the entity to new risks, including tax obligations, economic substance considerations and new regulatory concerns. Furthermore, it seems that nominees do not realize that any “changes” that they would want to make would require, writing an AIP and getting it passed. I am not sure why they haven’t been writing AIPs the entire time, arguably the largest power structure in the DAO is a person’s ability to get an AIP passed.

Two, if some enthusiastic nominees succeed and are elected to the Special Council, I worry they may get disenfranchised with the process, they may disengage from participation, lash out on social media or prematurely terminate their commitment to the role. The Special Council exists to protect the Ape Foundation from risk, the DAO must set strategy and direction, which is the entire point of decentralization and AIPs.

Speaking as a member of the community (although a very passive one since I have never voted on any AIP, including this Cartan AIP), I am a little concerned that some nominees do not have the temperament, experience, or corporate governance knowledge to professionally engage the role. Being an “influencer” does not translate into successfully governing an organization that sometimes needs to stay quiet instead of communicating something that could be misinterpreted by an Authority (note the capital A). I suspect, the last couple of paragraphs may be a lightning rod for criticism during an election period.

Insert Cartan Group, of which, @btang and I are equal shareholders. Brian and I decided to risk our capital three years ago to build a vision. We have taken on no investment so we can remain free from outside influence over how we manage our company and provide value to our clients. We are developing an ESOP so our team can also participate in any success we are able to build. The entire team at Cartan Group (25 strong and growing every month) is entirely focused on our business model, which is to become the most trusted DAO administrator in the world.

Foundation administration is an entirely new business model that we pioneered. For the past three years, we have been very fortunate to work with some of the brightest minds across the industry. It is an extremely humbling experience when we get to engage with so many passionate experts around the world. We take the huge responsibility of administering a Foundation Company extremely seriously. We take DAO governance extremely seriously. We believe that making us go through the same vote as everyone makes everything completely fair and designed it to be this way.

In the case of the Ape Foundation, more often than not, these responsibilities require us to remain silent even in the face of overwhelming pressure to say something publicly. It is an entirely difficult position to be in. The novel and nuanced concepts present in a DAO are entirely new to the world, and the path is filled with unknown unknowns. We work tirelessly to navigate these waters.

Of course, we are a company powered by people just like you. Passionate, intelligent, ambitious, optimistic people who are filled with idealism and work tirelessly to try and make the dream of a functional DAO a true reality. We make some mistakes; we learn from them and iterate. We write policies to build knowledge. We continually hire the smartest people we can to join this journey. There is nothing in the world that we would rather do with our time and since we have no external investors, we can allocate our resources to maximize our impact in an industry with the hope that it will translate into bigger wins in the future.

Which is what we have done with the Ape Foundation and the ApeCoin DAO. We originally said we would do some (paraphrasing) project management, discourse management and risk analysis (all very open-ended terms) but very quickly realized that we are the entire Ape Foundation. So, we dove head in, allocated as many resources as needed at any given point in time. This, of course eroded our profit margins but ultimately, we were committed to inventing the best way to administer, iterate, and operate an entire community. We started hiring people directly from the community because we wanted to make sure we had all perspectives in house as we grappled with ever evolving scenarios that were playing out in real time.

It is impossible to quantify some simplified checkbox matrix about what we said we would do and what we do, because since the Ape Foundations launch, we have done everything. Anything that happens in the Ape Foundation world passes our inbox at some point in time, registering trademarks around the world, IP registration, trademark disputes from different regions, coordinate the Special Council every week, building an election framework, engineering a token gate for Discourse, dispute resolution, KYC, protecting the entity from commingled custodians, helping people work on an AIP, encouraging people to pursue a role, showing people how a distributed newsletter could work, traveling to different IRL events to meet with the community and of course, there are things that we cannot discuss (unknown unknowns).

As I read the comments section of our AIP, I see people talking about working groups, a new Special Council, we must wait for some other event to happen before the DAO can decide what to do about Cartan. The only constant in the Ape Foundations world is Cartan Group. While I am excited to see what the new Special Council brings to the table it must be recognized that this evolution brings new risks and consideration. What happens if the election simply turns into a popularity contest and it’s not the best and brightest minds that join the council? At any point in time, any community member can write an AIP to form a working group, to form a sub-DAO, to ask for funding for a new tool, why is everyone always waiting for someone else to write these proposals. Why does an individual need to get elected to the Council to start writing these proposals? I can take a guess and say it is an incentive thing, without an incentive structure people will only participate in the speculation and voting mechanics, which is completely fair.

Cartan has written over 10 AIPs, we put out ideas and actively encourage other people to take them over, we engage at every level, we are the risk prevention strategy and while we will have some new Council members, there is no guarantee they will be any good (hope for the best but plan for the worst).

So, what’s next, why are we asking for more capital? Let me start with a controversial statement, US$250,000 per month + APE$20,000, is not that much money. Think of the companies you work for, think of any budget conversation you have been a part of, think of any project that you have worked on and then think of the over runs, think of how much capital Google dedicates to building a tiny new feature in their search engine algorithm, the meetings, planning, approvals, engineering, marketing, legal.

I suspect the first principals’ question about the increased budget is not, why does the DAO need this, but rather, in an industry full of fck!ng scammers and SBF completely scr3wing everyone, how do we know we can trust Cartan to deliver for the DAO and not just lining their pockets. That is a question I can address to the best of my ability, but no matter what I say, some level of trust needs to be established and we hope that our actions over the last nine months have provided some base level of commitment that we can continue building on top of.

Let me first start with the constant threat of being kicked out of the DAO. I have read some members would be more comfortable with a small extension so they can decide after three months. I would flip that a bit and say, there is always the ability for anyone to present an AIP removing Cartan Group after the three-month conflict period ends, including the new Special Council members. This basically means, that we only really have three months anyway before the DAO can decide to remove us. This is the case for any AIP, for example, the DAO could decide to stop funding the Staking contract and we would no longer send monthly top ups to it. Or the DAO could remove their approved Marketplace because they no longer think it is providing the value the DAO thought it would (I am not saying this, just pointing out an example and I apologize to the amazing team that manages that marketplace for using them as an example), this is also why we did not give the domain away to anyone.

If you look at our career website, you can see we have several open roles, most of them are dedicated to the Ape Foundation. In managing any business, you understand the need for an ever-expanding resource pool to provide support for an expanding service. In the Ape Foundation case, as the number of AIPs increase, they require more service levels. Another way to say this is, as the organization continues to grow, it requires more support. To fill those roles, we will be hiring directly from the DAO community, which will also help us provide more transparency directly back to the DAO. If we are directly hiring the community, the community will hold themselves and us accountable for continuing to provide more value. Our view is that we and the community are one in the same, so let’s grow together.

We also need to start allocating resources to developing better tooling for the DAO. In all honesty, I hate the tools we have available. Twitter is kind of toxic, Discord is horrible, Discourse is clunky, SnapShot needs to be both onchain and offchain depending on the voting type, desktops are horrible so we desperately need to go mobile. There are too many environments, and they need to be consolidated into a simple (all simple things are extremely complex in engineering) DAO mobile app. We are not going to propose to engineer this app ourselves, we are going to write a series of AIPs to get DAO buy in and run the development like the Linux Foundation builds the Linux kernel. Arguably, this would be maximum decentralization with a real time audience ready to use the product. Queue TokenProof, queue XMTP, queue Snag, queue X Marketplace, queue SnapShot to add different feature sets.

We also need to start considering building ApeChain, so we would like to propose an AIP that simply explores this concept with anyone interested in participating. This is NOT to say we think it is a good or bad idea, it is simply something that should be properly explored with other industry experts and presented for a decision by the DAO. Again, I would consider this maximum decentralization.

Finally, we also have a draft AIP for potentially establishing a new entity called ApeCoin Capital. I can’t get into too many details on this and honestly, I am not in love with this idea but the community keeps pressing us on this concept (I’m sure you can figure out the concept by reading the name) and so we have taken the initiative to try to figure it out. I am not sure the structure will work for most people but that is not up to Cartan to decide it is up to the DAO.

I hope this explanation helps to explain what’s next and why the DAO can continue to trust Cartan as the stable, risk adverse and responsible entity to continue administering the Ape Foundation.

In my view, the reason there is so much passion in the ApeCoin DAO is because it is the largest, most authentic, accessible, non-commercial, people driven entity ever created in history. We are all tired of the promises by big corporate about how their stupid products or services are going to change our lives, or how we are the product in their huge social media, data crunching algorithm so they can advertise at us. We are all a bit suspicious of each other (rightfully so!) and the events of the last couple of months has only scared all of us even more.

At the end of the day, I believe, we are all searching for an authentic experience that is bigger than ourselves, bigger than any one individual and cares about the journey and the destination. We all want to collectively build the biggest, coolest, culturally significant, innovative, societal changing, community reforming, global network state! We need to come at this from a baseline of trust but verify.

So, let’s fck!ng do it, together!



Hey bc, thanks for the open letter. There’s a lot of information to unpack, but I’m glad that you took time to free-flow your thoughts. I genuinely believe that Cartan is acting in the best interest of the DAO while also balancing the need to run a profitable company.

The public impression is that Cartan is the only visible party with power in the DAO. By power I mean that Cartan can do more than create and comment on AIPs. By visible I mean simply that you’re responsive. The SC, for the most part, is silent.

Because of this, it’s not unexpected that you’re under heavy scrutiny and sometimes caught in the crossfire. IMO the problem is that people aren’t upset that you want to do more, it’s that they’re afraid to authorize more when they’re unable to see the 9-month results. As you say above, “we do everything” so perhaps some criticism is warranted? I don’t know. Perhaps the community needs to endure a small setback to understand the need to contribute and/or your contributions.

I truly believe that omitting Discord as a communication tool doomed ApeCoin DAO from the start. We know our community. We know their tendencies. We know their attention span and their desire for instant gratification. I personally like Discourse, but the friction to get started here is way too high for most and there is a learning curve. It’s difficult to implement a new tool in a corporate organization; it’s even harder in a decentralized organization of people with diverse backgrounds. Omitting Discord killed the #1 (maybe #2) method of communication for NFT/crypto people and the current state is the result. Open and free communication is so important. I hope that either your team or ApeComms can fix it.

If I put on my conspiracy hat I could ponder how purposely paralyzing communication could benefit those waiting for their tokens to unlock. It would be easy to dispel that by disclosing launch partners and the detailed unlock schedule, but alas that information is withheld. We’re supposed to be fully decentralized and stuff but, anyway…I digress. I don’t think that Cartan had anything to do with the original decision.

I’d encourage you to ask the existing Special Council to endorse Cartans’ AIP publicly in Discourse. I think that would help to improve the chances of it passing. Again, thanks again for everything your team does.


  1. Why do we need to consider ApeChain? Where does this thought come from? We voted to keep APE on ETH. I’m playing Devil’s Advocate here because I believe we may need ApeChain to fulfill Otherside’s promises. Microtransactions on Ethereum (inferred by Yuga’s recent microtransaction hires) won’t be feasible.
  2. From where does the ApeCoin Capital discussion originate? Comments like this, and the ApeChain discussion above, sow more distrust in the community as it’s not visible in the forums. Who is the “community” asking you to do it? Where does that community communicate? Not here. Whoever is requesting these two initiatives should just propose the AIP. Why should Cartan propose it? Cartan is the admin…right?


The public impression is that Cartan is the only visible party with power in the DAO. By power I mean that Cartan can do more than create and comment on AIPs. By visible I mean simply that you’re responsive. The SC, for the most part, is silent.

Interesting, there is an administrative process to go through on the AIP side and certainly, we can respect that that process should be more transparent. Our bottle neck is two fold, every AIP, no matter how big or small, great or not so great, detailed or otherwise, currently needs to go through the same analysis process. Our team only has so many resources and sometimes delays in response times from ourselves or the author take can be a drag on the process. Other times, there are some risks identified on an AIP and we need to iterate internally on how to deal with them. A big example of this was deciding how to use the domain for the marketplace proposals, ultimately, it was decided with the Special Council that no domain usage would be granted – this was not a Cartan decision.

On Discord, I do not disagree that it would have been better to launch with the communication tool in place. Ultimately, was not the case and it got pushed into a situation where the DAO needed to propose it (which did not seem to materialize). Recently two different AIPs have gone up for a vote and failed to secure a positive outcome. Think at this point in time, it is probably going to fall on Cartan to stand up the Discord server and we will be talking to a few folks to help do that. To be clear, it was never an opposition to standing up Discord, but since it wasn’t part of the launch strategy, it then needed to be brought forward as an AIP and we were unsure if that was something we should be doing or wait for the community. Now, we think you are right and probably need to adjust.

Re: the conspiracy theory, we literally were not a part of any launch partner discussions and cannot provide any insight even if we wanted to.

Re: ApeChain, I am more saying we need to consider the idea. I’m not sure about Otherside promises, or integrations. I mostly think creating a base layer or using a solution from an L2 provides a bit deeper of an integration path and it could help developers create more of a protocol layer on top of the token. Maybe it is a bad idea and the community will hate it, I mostly would just like to explore the concept and see where it goes — no stone unturned.

Re: ApeCoin Capital. I assumed this was an extremely public concept, that the DAO wants to find a way to receive profit share or equity in different ecosystem grants. ACC is just a working name that we gave it as we explored how this could be structured or initialised. Ultimately, there are a lot of findings, nuances and things the DAO would need a full transparent report on to make any sort of decision.


This open letter was an eye opener to me. I was surprised to see many views here that align with my own.

The Special Council also has no authority to make any significant resource allocation decisions without going through an AIP. In fact, the Special Council arguably has no authority to steer direction or execute a strategy they believe is correct without first securing approval from the DAO itself.

1000% agreed. Which makes a great deal of SC candidate profiles irrelevant. SC is not meant to LEAD this DAO anywhere, appeal to or represent interest groups, or exercise influence on the record to partner $APE with “aWeSum bIG bRaNdZ.”

Two, if some enthusiastic nominees succeed and are elected to the Special Council, I worry they may get disenfranchised with the process, they may disengage from participation, lash out on social media or prematurely terminate their commitment to the role.

What happens if the election simply turns into a popularity contest and it’s not the best and brightest minds that join the council?

It’s really concerning to me that there are Apes being seriously considered for SC strictly because of their popularity. They drop their profile in Discourse then won’t even answer questions. Virtually none of the popularity profiles addressed risk management. However, I’m preparing for the eventuality of electing an influencer-based SC — I see it as a foregone conclusion.

What must not happen is executive creep — AIPs coming from SC that slowly but surely consolidate power in the SC, or even worse, SC assuming powers with no community pushback. The Administrator provides no direct check on this power, but @bc’s view comforts me knowing at least we’d both be equally peeved if this happened.

why is everyone always waiting for someone else to write these proposals.

I’m not. :grin: Unfortunately, getting an AIP passed is also a popularity contest.


Thanks to @bc for writing the long letter. You did cover many crucial points that were discussed in the forum. I totally agree with that SC members will not and should not have resource allocation decisions without going through AIPs. SC could lead the DAO to some directions or educate DAO members, but decisions are still make by holders.

The concerns about the DAO governance experience of nominees , yes the skillsets are very different to being as an influencer. But I think the DAO members, especially big holders have the ability to select the right SC members. We are voting for the sake of our benefits in the end.

Foundation administration is new and I think Cartan did a great job exploring the new area. But I think the major question raised by the community is to increase the compensation more than double to the original costs, what are the new scopes or workload added? It is hard to measure if this amount of money is much or little, especially you are comparing with large companies in a much larger business. We have to see the achievements or what goals to achieve. Remember the ApeComms new AIP is 1/3 million for 6 months, and there were still comments saying they cost too much.

If there are sensitive projects that you cannot disclose, I totally understand and I’m sure other community members will do either. I think adding at least the general idea of those newly projects in the Cartan’s AIP would give the community more info about the cost increase.


Hi @ChrisL

I appreciate the feedback. The increased fee is multi-faceted in our thinking is:

  1. We need to rightsize the resources to pay ratio we currently have. If you assumed an avg. salary of 100K pp + 30% for things like health care, pension, bonus, equipment, then we are operating on pretty slim profit margins.
  2. We want to add more members of the community directly into the administrative process, the expanding amount of work literally needs more bodies.
  3. We need some buffer on resources so that we can quickly deploy assets on some unforeseen circumstances (unknown unknowns)
  4. We see all the stops & starts within the community and we really want to be able to help push things forward — for this, we will need the resources to advise, engineer and help other entrepreneurs … ask Jackie.eth if he appreciates the help, ask different AIP authors if they appreciate the assistance.
  5. It seems like we need to standup a Discord server and we need mods for that environment
  6. A few known unknown projects

Plus resources for the other areas that I mentioned in my letter

I would also reiterate, the short extension makes no sense. If the DAO wants a three month extension to “think about things” they can always write an AIP after three months to remove Cartan. Same outcome but less bureaucracy and just as important, less stress on our team and myself

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Thank you @bc for sharing your thoughts. There is a lot to unpack, but I will keep my comments for now to the most pressing issue re: Cartan’s AIP to expand its scope of services

Unfortunately I do not believe this open letter completely addresses the risk of Cartan’s AIP not having a good chance of passing, at least at this moment in time for the DAO. It seems as though you are asking us to still vote on the AIP as it was originally written, correct?

Similar to how the Special Council can only make recommendations to the DAO via an AIP, the broader ApeCoin community is still the one who needs to pass Cartan’s AIP. The unfortunate reality at the moment is that the general community a) does not care about the additional context/does not care to read it, and b) the timing of the new Special Council elections is already added fuel to not pass a Cartan AIP unless it is a simple extension.

Hopefully Cartan and/or the community can figure this out soon.

Though perhaps @NFTC said it best:



@BoredApeG we all agree that Cartan needs to pass an AIP, seems relevant to reiterate, we know the process well, since we literally authored / published AIP-1,2,3. We knew we would need to pass an AIP back in the beginning. We also process every AIP that goes through the system. We understand better than anyone what it all means. We also love this concept, it is all a massive experiment and we are honoured to be part of it.

I have never and will never win a popularity contest but If this is really about pushing the boundaries of what is possible in a responsible, risk management environment — then we got everyone’s back.



I’m going to push back on the notion of this being a popularity contest. That is not the reason Cartan’s AIP will pass or fail.

The DAO is not even requesting an RFP process to explore other alternatives as part of Cartan’s renewal. We are simply asking for more time at the current rate given this was pushed in the middle of the DAO’s first election and the current agreement hasn’t even been in place for 1-year. Furthermore, Cartan presented this with only a few weeks to the expiration of its contract. Cartan indicated previously it was also busy and limited in its resources to present this sooner - it is what it is, but is the DAO at fault for needing more time then? This is the present situation and it is not about popularity, but the totality of what is being presented for consideration within a short window of time.

Again, no one is doubting Cartan has Ape Foundation/the DAO’s back. The first comment I said in Brian’s post was that I wish for Cartan to succeed in presenting an AIP to the community. I truly hope that you succeed, but failing to pass this AIP and leaving the Foundation in limbo (which is highly likely with the originally written AIP) will compromise the day-to-day activities of the Foundation - exactly the opposite of responsible risk management.


As it stands, I’m in favor of seeking community driven alternatives to the plan presented. Personally, I find myself outside of core processes when I’d like to contribute, and I’m sure a lot of people feel the same way. The DAO relies on the initiative of its members, and that initiative starts now.


@BoredApeG I’m not sure if it is or isn’t a popularity contest and I’m not saying that it is. What I said was, if it is, we will not win. If it isn’t, then we got everyone’s back. Rephrasing that, we are honoured to be part of this DAO, we respect what ever decision is made and look to the future.

I’ll reiterate my previous point, if the AIP passes now, it can be retracted after three months. That is the same outcome as writing an 3 month extension AIP but potentially minimises the need for another bureaucratic process. If we are trying to maximise efficiency, that would seem to be the best path for everyone?

Again, I am not saying that anyone is doubting Cartan. What I am saying is, we have put forth an AIP and we are proud of what we have put forward. Two comments earlier, I added more context on costs. We stand by our work and hope to continue doing it


Thanks @bc for the open letter and candor.

Special Council elections will mark a very large transitional moment for the DAO. Lots of new opportunities, excitement, but also a steep learning curve. Candidates will certainly be able to lean on past experience, but no one is going to be able to completely hit the ground running as a representative of the DAO, nor be able to establish working groups and delegate tasks immediately.

I think people should remember that DAOs are still a very nascent organizational organism, and this one in particular is under quite a bit of scrutiny. To that point, continuity is EXTREMELY important, and I am of the opinion that Cartan Group should remain as a key stakeholder of Apecoin execution. And if the community believes it’s time to pivot away from Cartan serving in its role, we should have a bulletproof plan before making the change.

To steelman the criticism against Cartan Group, I believe there’s an opportunity for more transparency and reporting to help assure the community that the investment in Cartan is worth it, and as a means to improve how they serve the DAO (versus throwing the baby out with the bathwater). Communications like this note from @bc are a great example of what I’m sure many people would like to see more of.



Interesting, if people just want me to write more, no problem, I thoroughly enjoy writing but I was told no one reads what I write anyway! :grin:

Next Up: Utility is not governance, we need growth not bureaucracy.


Alternatively I’m happy to do a podcast with you if written words are too much for you and/or the readers.

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like a BoredElon, bc. podcast? Would people listen? What would it be about?

Hi bc,

Thank you for providing a window into your view of the DAO and the foundation. I recognize and appreciate that you, Brian, and Cartan have done an immense amount of work behind the scenes to get this show up and running. But the more I read your writing, the more I’m worried by Cartan’s push to further centralize DAO operations.

Two questions:

  1. Why do you have so little faith (based on your writing above) in the DAO’s ability to elect competent members to the Special Council from the 40 nominees in the running?
  2. How do you see Cartan’s role as admin of the APE Foundation evolving to support the further decentralization of DAO operations?

Thank you


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