Ending ApeCoin Staking - Completion of Year 1

What do you see as the best use case for $ape?

1 Like

Love this take and can get behind what you said here. There is certainly a conversion to be had of leaving it alone. We are through the heaviest dilution and maybe it’s best to ride it out. I think when this all started most of us thought we would have more/ better use cases by now but so far it’s been minimal.

1 Like

I believe that $APE should never have been released by Yuga. But since it exists, and since it set out to be the token of the metaverse, I think the DAO should be aggressively investing tens of millions into talented gaming operations to build experiences where $APE is sole token. I strongly believe that if everyone keeps putting all of their future faith into The Otherside, they’re going to be extremely disappointed. Diversification is critical.

Smaller efforts, while interesting, won’t move the proverbial needle.

1 Like

Agreed.

Stakers have felt pain already, holding from $4.00 pre staking to $1.50 now. Some of that will be self inflicted sell pressure and general bear market things but it’s also just a general utility issue. Blaming the token price on staking seems popular but it’s not the full story :saluting_face:

4 Likes

As a smaller holder myself, I can relate to this sentiment. While it’s not much, I do appreciate the added benefit of generating a little income without the need to sell off any of my principle, it’s a small but very much welcome additional stream for me and my family. I admit I’d be a bit bummed, at least initially, to see it disappear.

6 Likes

To my understanding, the intention way back then was to create good use cases, and that more and more use cases would be built along the way throughout the staking process. Where we’re at now though is different than that intention it seems. So now the questions is; ‘how best to move forward’

2 Likes

That’s a topic I’m curious to explore as well. As I mentioned above, maybe timing the end of staking in parallel with the launch of ApeChain, or some other good use case, could help. Just a thought

1 Like

Would love to hop on a brainstorm chat with you on this. I don’t have any magical answers, but I love the focus on this topic and nurturing it into potential solutions, and potentially into some more really solid AIPs

Hi @capetaintrippy ,

The community feedback period for your proposal would be ending in roughly 24 hours.

  • If you’re content with the feedback received, your next steps are to finalize your proposal using the AIP Draft Template.

  • A moderator will reach out to the author to finalize the AIP Draft. Upon receipt of the final Draft, we will review and provide instructions on the next steps.

  • Are you ready to proceed to the next phase or do you wish to extend community discussion for another 7 days?

We look forward to hearing from you.

-@Facilitators

I feel strongly that this is not a good direction. The DAO should be instead focusing on alternative rewards, creating buying incentives, or maybe some kind of sustainable profit model. To the general public that doesn’t participate in governance or play particular web3 games, this eliminates the only $APE utility they participate in. This also pretty much severs the last reason to hold $APE for many Yuga NFT hodlers. I want to emphasize that the apecoin logo is literally the bayc logo and I think alienating bayc from staking rewards is a major mistake that effectively separates apes from apecoin

I think it is particularly bad time to end staking being directly before a bitcoin halving/etf approval and speculatively a bull run. Rather than abandon Apecoin’s most used utility I think basically every alternative should be explored first. Before one of the largest reasons to buy is eliminated for the sake of protecting the treasury, maybe the DAO should explore sustainable income stream or finding new markets and giving them reasons to buy in order to balance staking sell pressure. There are plenty of high yield staking coins that have survived and outperformed Apecoin during the DAO, and I think that staking dilution is at times used as an scapegoat for a bunch of other reasons that people are lacking to buy $APE

1 Like

Agree with this. Ending staking altogether is resigning to not having uses cases or reasons for people to buy

2 Likes

Agree with this. The income stream from $APE staking, even though in practice has been largely a net USD loss, is one of the only reasons that many still have $APE and one of its few functional utilities. Think this is an especially poor decision directly before a potential larger crypto bull market. Alternative reward systems and incentives to buy and spend ape should be thoroughly explored before this last resort action

1 Like

thank you for your feedback. I also have a post in idea phase to leave as is. feel free to comment your thoughts there as well.

2 Likes

I agree this is more of a timing question than a ‘should we ever’ question. Staking ends one way or another, so the question is ‘when’, and/or ‘should we alter the existing schedule at all’.

What are your thoughts on considering for timing to potentially coincide with the future launch of ApeChain?

If I were a betting man (I’m not though haha), I’d say 2024 is the year of rev gen AIPs. This is one of the hottest topics that seems to be circulating right now. And if we don’t see an influx of rev gen related AIPs to help sustain future operations of the DAO, then I could potentially make it my mission to go recruit more builders and onboard them in part with support by @AllCityBAYC’s mentorship program which is soon to be implemented. (very exciting btw!)

Nearly every single DAO I work with is in a similar difficult position of depleting treasury funds. CityDAO, Krause House, Afropolitan, Bankless, Collabland, on and on you name it, everyone’s looking for revenue to sustain their future ops. Nouns figured it out, but not sure we really have the opportunity to replicate that model at this stage. Maybe we do, maybe we don’t, that would need more thought. So this leads us to potentially consider startups a bit more closely.

The thing about startups though is that the traditional approach to startups looks at, roughly speaking, a 5-10yr payout, from the 1, 2, or maybe 3 if we’re lucky that hit Unicorn status out of 100+ allocations. Even YCombinator has only an approx 5% success rate of allocations to Unicorns. I don’t think it’s reasonable for us to expect 5%. If we do very well, perhaps we could hit 1% - 2%.

Here’s a quick rundown, for those who are interested, in understanding the startup investment math. First, absolutely everything here is just for general discussion purposes, there’s an enormous amount of consideration required by legal that are not factored into here yet, this is simply some basic math that’s generally already public knowledge therefore just for the discussions sake overall at the conceptual level.

Let’s say $25k allocations as follows only (the startup in this case would find a lead investor somewhere and the DAO would mostly only follow) per startup and 100 allocations over the next 3 years. This translates to $2.5M of startup funding allocations total, or approx 33 allocations per year totalling approx $833,333 annually for each of the three years.

Next to consider, is the typical startup exit cycle is somewhere in the 5-10yr range. Point is, in a traditional sense, that’s too long to wait for 1, 2, or even maybe 3 of those startups to exit to return capital to the DAO for its ops. We’d basically need to consider a more direct value instead of the delayed. And this leads to interesting topics like rev share, royalties, and other approaches that allow for a shorter timespan for value return.

Lots to discuss here, just sharing some thoughts. Happy to continue discussing if there’s appetite.

Got it, thank you I didn’t understand that!

MemeBrains - to your first point, my thoughts are that timing for the launch of ApeChain should certainly be considered and capitalized on (potentially with a secondary utility/meme token). I think the ApeChain timing is another reason why not to end staking altogether at this point. DAO just gained so much regulatory clarity, the ability to gain income, and has plenty of room for experimentation in rewards with an ApeChain.

To your second point, I hope that you are right about a next generation of rev gen AIPs. I think I will resubmit a rev gen AIP idea I submitted prior to this month’s regulatory clarity

1 Like

Awesome! :star_struck:

Feel free to ping me if you want any early input on your draft before you post, happy to help wherever I can :mechanical_arm: :gorilla: :heart:

Hi @capetaintrippy ,

The community feedback period for your proposal would be ending in roughly 24 hours.

  • If you’re content with the feedback received, your next steps are to finalize your proposal using the AIP Draft Template.
  • A moderator will reach out to the author to finalize the AIP Draft. Upon receipt of the final Draft, we will review and provide instructions on the next steps.
  • Are you ready to proceed to the next phase or do you wish to extend community discussion for another 7 days?

We look forward to hearing from you.

-@Facilitators

Hi ApeCoin DAO Community,

@capetaintrippy has requested to withdraw their application. This AIP will be moved to and remain in the Withdrawn AIPs category.

Kind Regards,

@Facilitators