OG ape and/or ApeCoin holders vs later holders?

I had a deep conversation last night with someone who was not a minter of BAYC, but spent maybe 300+ ETH buying (not flipping) apes. He was a holder of significant ApeCoin though he kept his holdings private while participating and choosing to quietly stake (not to me).

I think we have an issue glorifying early holders, especially minters. We sing praise to those who made life changing money (got their mortgage paid off etc), either by buying very early or flipping. However, how does that benefit the club and make us all stronger? For me, it should be how does the holder make owning BAYC more appealing. Could be by participation or the value they add just being in the Club.

Though @Gerry and I may not see eye to eye on everything he made a valid statement about saying MAYC should not be equal to BAYC. I agree with this statement. I noticed BAYC got 15 minutes earlier access this time to Apefest tickets, a minor but still a step in the right direction.

For ApeCoin, this narrative exists somewhat and I do agree we should honour those who put in hard work and grit for the DAO, but conversely new members, new non BAYC/MAYC nft communities, such as Mocaverse and grass roots delegations like Bulls on the Block should be celebrated.

We also need to better help those who can add value come in and maybe boldly suggest they partner with someone familiar with how AIPs get over the goal line. It is a fine line between earning your place and gatekeeping.

When people respond specify if your comment is about BAYC/MAYC or ApeCoin.

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I totally agree with your points. It’s important to value what current members bring to the community and celebrate everyone’s contributions, old and new. Encouraging collaboration and fresh ideas is key.

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I think we need to stop putting BAYC/MAYC members on a pedestal.

Yes, they have place in our ecosystem, and yes some of these people are incredibly talented and can do wildly amazing things for us. However, every time we glorify them we are inadvertently and/or subconsciously telling people that are not BAYC/MAYC members that in order to be a part of or be successful in ApeCoin DAO you need to own one.

In order to make the DAO successful we need a combination of OG members, BAYC/MAYC, and other non-yuga related members contributing and building up the DAO. The DAO will stagnate if we don’t start encourage more non-BAYC/MAYC members and start encouraging our newest community members to help bring forth their ideas to table.

Don’t dismiss good advice from an unlikely source.

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Thanks for the post.

Have to push back again (today) on something you’re saying - no body knows how to get AIPs passed - there is no winning formula! Agree with all other points made.

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I really appreciated your post and the subject matter. I am brand new to the Apecoin community. I don’t own a Bored Ape or Mutant Ape. I’d buy a BAYC if I had $50K but I don’t. I have, however, been in the web3 ecosystem for about 6 years, was one of the lead facilitators for CityDAO for the past three years, hold a JD and two masters, and am three years into a Ph.D. in sociology of the metaverse. I believe in the value of incentives (i.e. early access to tickets) and other benefits to holders of select NFTs, but I think that seniority is slightly different, albeit no less important.

I came to Apecoin on the recommendation of a friend, @MemeBrains who had nothing but good things to say about this community. What I’ve seen so far has been vibrant, thoughtful and supportive, well-organized and efficient, developing new ideas and driving creativity forward, which is inspiring. I hope that even without the funds required to purchase an NFT, I can demonstrate positive value. For that, ApeCoin DAO is crucial, and seniority in the DAO means a lot to me, as these people have been active parts of the community and understand how this micro-society functions effectively.

Seniority in societal and business structures is, in some ways, a very web2 value system and, as with Chesterton’s Fence and second-order thinking, it’s important that web3 doesn’t seek to disrupt traditional hierarchies just because they’re traditional. In society, seniority often means authority and (hopefully) wisdom from accrued years of experience. In business, it’s largely the same. However, as we all know, seniority sometimes leads to stagnancy and a refusal to pass on power.

In this respect, I believe those who came early and stayed have demonstrated a commitment to the project and serve as attraction for the DAO. When I say attraction I mean, for example, that I am here because I am attracted to what I see in the project, which is to say the community, not because of advertisements, marketing or promotions. I love the web3 values of decentralization, transparency, user control, accountability, security, privacy, interoperability, economic inclusion, community governance, censorship resistance and fairness. People who work towards those values over time demonstrate that they’re not just pretty words used to sell products and services.

One of the challenges I’ve seen in DAOs and web3 communities is that it’s possible to buy into positions of influence, if not authority. Whales and those can afford expensive NFTs can enter into a community without needing to prove their commitment or social capital. However, at the same time, DAOs provide the mobility to create proposals, join and lead teams, and enter into positions of responsibility without needing a large initial buy in of funds. For this, ApeCoin DAO serves a very valuable purpose. For me, overall, seniority with web3 attributes and positive involvement over time matters more than seniority of title, or where someone has held a financial position for a long time without the same level of involvement. Thanks for your topic!

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The harsh reality is that $APE and ApeChain cannot scale if they are only focused on Yuga asset holders. You cannot build a successful coin (if you define successful as a large market cap), or a successful chain (defined by TVL) if you stay focused on an incredibly niche group.

ApeCoin / ApeChain must constantly think about how they scale impact well beyond the scope of Yuga holders in order to give it a shot at getting anywhere near its past highs.

I guess it’s all about how you define success though. If the definition of success is that $APE becomes a utility token for apes, and ApeChain exists only to serve apes, then by all means hyper focus on their needs and have a small thing that’s focused and executes on that small focus extremely well.

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If the DAO is going to become what we all want it to be, it has to move beyond Yuga.

Apes are key to the creation and early growth of the DAO, and having a partner like Yuga committed to building on it is HUGE, but other communities, large and small, need to be welcomed and celebrated just the same.

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Mutants should be higher than bayc imo

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I really appreciated your post and the subject matter. Apecoin

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Agreed, and every time we do this it creates an impression that ‘getting rich’ is what drives us all to the community, which discredits those who are here to build and move the ecosystem forward :mechanical_arm:

Last week was the first time I felt shamed for owning a MAYC. It was a terrible feeling :cry:

It it were to happen too often I would sell it asap. 99% of people are super welcoming in the ecosystem for MAYC/BAYC equally. The last things a new MAYC hodler wants is to feel shamed after dropping $10k++ on an NFT. There’s some great contributors with MAYC and it would be a big loss to turn on them and make them feel bad for not having the cash for an OG Ape.

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100% agreed

The Yuga ecosystem is but a small fraction of the overall ecosystem today, and the ecosystem is continuously growing with the Web2 migration. It would be very shortsighted to set up ‘Yuga only’ guardrails

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Welcome David! Glad to see you here on Ape Discourse! :gorilla: :mechanical_arm:

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Agreed. BAYC/MAYC shouldn’t be PVP. I understand tiered benefits, but at this point, most of us paid silly amounts of money for monkey JPEGs, regardless of tier. Let’s all just appreciate that and build together.

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It certainly isn’t about someone feeling shamed. Like flying business class vs first class. Both are amazing ways to fly.

If you look from the other perspective, if there is no clear additional benefit why pay 6x the price for a BAYC vs a MAYC.

I have great things to say about MAYC holders and my point still stands imho.

Some areas it is important to overlap, but I think they need to think about somethings that are for BAYC only holders.

Right now one of the benefits was for fat people (like me) as the Hoodies come up wider. Lool. They clearly did some market research.

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Hilarious! Now that’s a benefit I could get behind.

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I agree with you conceptually. The challenge is that’s now how it would be implemented in reality. In reality, OG Apes would push down Mutants, constantly reminding us of second grade citizenship status as an inner circle joke, forming toxic energy at a time when we need unity. This is exactly what happened to me, and it’s exactly what would happen at larger scale. There’s no way to suddenly introduce separation and perks to OG Apes without simultaneously introducing toxicity towards Mutants.

I’m really excited to buy an OG Ape in present market even though there’s no added benefit. I want one because I want one, OG Apes are always going to be OG Apes, and that always has an appeal. Adding unique extra value to OG Apes is an interesting topic, but pushing down Mutants is not.

lmao, love the sense of humour :laughing: :heart: :gorilla:

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Just to clarify, Yuga directly stated when they released mutants that OG apes would get the tier 1 benefits. While there definitely is some gatekeeping that occurs with OG ape holders talking down to others, mutants were always intended to be a step below the OGs. Honestly, the gap has been so minimal for so long, I’m amazed there is as much of a price gap as there is.

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Ya and that makes sense, I think that’s fair that first entrants, especially with the higher price tag, would receive better perks. My point is solely on the ‘how it gets implemented, how it gets done’

Cuz there’s a difference between elevating OG Apes vrs pushing down Mutants

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Certainly! It’s hard to align people on expectations though of what something like pushing down mutants would mean. Some will think it’s fine, others will strongly disagree. It’s certainly a weakness of how vague Yuga was around messaging at the time of release. I honestly doubt that they had thought through any meaningful amount of details at that point in time about what the tier structure implementation would look like.

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Yeah it’s def a delicate subject for sure, I get that :heart:

I think it just comes down to being respectful and gentle with the communications and differentiations. The experience I had is hopefully not representative of the upcoming norms :heart: :gorilla:

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