OG ape and/or ApeCoin holders vs later holders?

Forming and maintaining strong community bonds that attract others without creating toxic environments seems to be a lodestone question in the DAO space. I wonder how many other DAOs out there, if any, have a tiered structure like Apecoin. Yuga’s open definition of “tier 1” as opposed to “lower” tiers at least keeps things open for experimentation. Tiers may offer differences in NFT price (which itself is a form of status), governance, incentives, opportunities, and access, among other possible benefits. I agree with @MemeBrains that it’s about how it’s done, rather than whether it’s done.

One thing I learned from years in leadership at CityDAO is that it’s challenging to avoid toxic behavior democratically, without giving a small group authority to ban/kick/exclude certain members, or to censor/police forums. At the end of the day, it’s a trade off between the web3 values of anonymity and censorship resistance and the importance of maintaining a supportive, encouraging, environment of kindness. There’s certainly a place for innovation and tiered benefits, but no place for making others feel small. The holder of one Apecoin could change the world.


I don’t think any of this is really relevant for the ApeCoin DAO as it’s separate from Yuga and apes, although many don’t seem to understand that. Also I don’t think BAYC vs. MAYC is the intended purpose of this thread. MAYC qualify as OG ApeCoin holders, the exact same as BAYC.

You won’t see Garga or any other Yuga leadership ever post in here, although Garga can vaguely complain on Twitter, as it was purposefully set up this way. The DAO only exists to help prevent $APE from being labeled a security, so Yuga must stay hands off. All of this funnels back to the decisions Yuga hastily made.

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I’ll make one final comment on this thread.

When it comes to Yuga, BAYC is the Tier 1 asset. We have seen Yuga exercise this early on through airdropping BAKC and serums to them, throughout merch drops through access to a broader selection of items, through the amounts allocated from the initial $APE airdrop, and even through the tiers of Sewer Passes made available via Dookey Dash.

If you were an OG minter, you got all of this for the price of 0.08 ETH.

Whether that justifies the difference in price between BAYC and MAYC is arguable, but also not up to Yuga. Once the mint is done, the market (aka us) decide what a fair price is for all these benefits.

When it comes to the DAO, I don’t believe it is our role to discriminate ANY one collection or delegation. While it definitely isn’t a perfect system, there is beauty in 1 $APE = 1 $APE, and that entry ticket is available to ANYONE who can find $1.30 to pay the price of admission.

I would hate to see the DAO ever move away from that model, less we lose the very thing that makes this DAO so great.


Hi David,

Welcome. Had to comment after reading your replies. Specifically the above stood out - LFG!!! Like it’s amazing having the diverse community we have, but we also need highly qualified participants to drive ideas and discussions at community level into areas many of us may never think of.

Glad you’re here.

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This is not cool. And although I do agree with many - MAYC are not equal to BAYC - for me this statement only relates to a very small amount of the benefits we see.

The argument of MAYC/BAYC vs APECOIN vs NEW HOLDERS vs OTHER COMMUNITIES is a very complex one.

As mentioned YUGA are BAYC/MAYC/APECOIN parents - this without doubt elevates their status here imo. Should they be viewed in that exact “pecking order”, probably not, but I genuinely believe those tiers are already here and ingrained right or wrong.

Onto OTHER COMMUNITIES, my view here is we need more people, more ideas, more exchange of solutions and best practices between other DAOs especially, and for those reasons alone I welcome & pray for additional members from as many new places as possible. For me when it becomes an issue is when it’s more of a takeover than facilitating crossover of ideas (and funds etc). This ofc then leads onto the idea CT suggested re fund swapping - at first glance this idea looks beneficial - however, when you realise the DAOs could/will be redacted and the community have no final say we should be careful. A concern is we don’t want to “kill off” the foundations we have all worked so hard for. (Summary - Targeted Expansion is fine and ofc necessary, but as long as this doesn’t mean OG + YUGA members are heavily diluted, and possibly dissolved in the process.)

Great thought provoking discussion @bigbull


Thanks so much for the kind welcome! I’m working with a team of professors at a nonprofit in California on helping people to write academic papers about the DAO and metaverse space. The goal is just legitimacy for the space. There isn’t a single academic journal devoted to DAOs. Scholars who write about the metaverse end up putting articles in business journals, or sociology journals, but this area is totally open for some org to come in and be the leader. I’m actually about to put up an AIP for ApeCoin to lead the way in legitimizing the DAO and metaverse space!


Yup I think that’s 100% fair :heart: :apecoin:

Agreed 100% as well :mechanical_arm:

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Looking forward to seeing this AIP

Would be good to have a chat with @AllCityBAYC & @bigbull from the Governance Working Group, as I think there’s some interesting correlation and synergy at play here :mechanical_arm: :gorilla:

When do you think you’ll be posting a draft? I know we chatted about this a couple times in the past following up on all our work at CityDAO together :heart:


Love this!

Actually chatting about something similar with someone tomorrow. Appreciate the ping @MemeBrains and would love to chat @DavidW!! Reaching out now!!!



DAOs can work. They can deliver on what they were designed to be. It’s just that no one has really bothered to try and work out how. Most are motivated by money & don’t care about what comes next or how to make things better, so that we can deliver on those original promises. So it’s really refreshing to see approaches like yours. :muscle::pray:

I think you’ll find many people here who will support your ideas and pursuits. :handshake:

LFG. :muscle:


One of the things I liked about @DavidW’s concept is the potential for getting DAOs included in Universities and Colleges, by way of having appropriate research papers that can be referenced to within the world of proper academia

This represents a shift from generic articles and an entry into formal education systems. If done correctly, this could be done with ApeCoin DAO as the reference for the research papers which Masters/PHD students would study, providing substantial exposure and legitimacy in the long term future of the DAO looking 10, 20+ years down as an Ape Legacy of sorts :mechanical_arm: :apecoin:

It’s an interesting thought. I talked about this concept in my 1hr Keynote at AthensDAO in Greece last year. Pretty cool to see the concept taking shape within ApeCoin DAO :star_struck:


Having been in the web3 space since 2017, I’ve seen countless blogposts and articles from Medium. Mirror, Substack, Lenster, PublishOx and others - so many forums that have a bevy of quality information and excellent writing. However, almost none of it follows rigorous academic requirements, IRB standards, or could be published in a peer-reviewed journal. Thus, much of the information cannot realistically be used in government, university or academic discourse.

This is exactly where I hope I can contribute. I’m about to post an AIP that would seek to work with “content experts” like those at Apecoin who have real-life Web3 experience and pair them with “methodology experts” who are PhD scholars and professors who know the academic publishing game. This way, we can get the topics of DAOs and Metaverse into the global sphere of legitimacy, and focus on topics relevant to Apecoin and its members, while onboarding a large number of professors, students and scholars to create a pool of DAO and Metaverse academic content. Apecoin can and should become the central hub of academic legitimacy for the DAO space.

I discussed a large fellowship by MetaGov a while back to focus on practical implementation of DAOs in local organizations, and while they were interested, I decided to concentrate more on organizing publishable research. I truly believe that legitimacy requires publishing (and teaching) about DAOs, Metaverse and Web3 at the university level. I taught a course with InHolland University in partnership with CityDAO and I was able to see firsthand that kind of talent that desperately wants to enter the space. I think that Apecoin is the perfect platform to develop the Web3 space in conjunction with scholarly standards of writing and publishing.


Expanding on this:

A part of any omnichannel marketing campaign includes publication, comms and PR.

If we are talking about penetrating different segments (both market and academic), is this something that can be organized, or at least supported by Marcomms as part of a broader DAO-wide campaign.

Not to make it a spin campaign disguised as academic research, but something that could be supported, if not funded, by an AIP to attract academic writers to spend time researching and writing about the DAO from a different angle.

If we are going to break out of the current bubble we’re all currently in, we’ll have to take different approaches and address different areas than we have in the past.

I would love to see us begin to spread our wings outside of our current corner of the internet.

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I totally agree, and I don’t think there’s anything detrimental or in any way unethical about using all available channels and approaches to attract attention to Apecoin, BAYC, Apechain and all the other building blocks of this ecosystem and community. On the ApeComms call today I compared this to how XRP has leveraged academic articles to help build and strengthen their community. While I’m not an XRP bull, I think it was a smart move upon which other projects have not capitalized. I think you’re exactly right about considering all the “corners of the internet”. I believe that there are great synergies in having academic articles about Apecoin, articles that include authors, content experts and members of apecoin, and also onboarding academics and the huge numbers of university students interested in Web3, blockchain, DAOs and metaverse studies.


I don’t think No one saying its exactly the same at the BAYC community, not sure why its even relevant to Apecoin such thought at all. BAYC got much more apecoins, tons of it and possibility to do much more thing with it earlier, like many sold it right away above 20 dollars and literally opened businesses!

Meanwile we can not compare rich :money_mouth_face: to disabled with bills, we can not compare jobless with a lot of time to ones who strugle to make it by the ends of the month working on several jobs or otherways they cant take care of their family. We can not compare the folk with entire team of shillers and secretaries and hose keepers hired with single person who actually have to do all by themselfs and on top to take care of othres physically or else.

No one is in the same situation. We have to respect those who buyild this regardless of the struggle they went thjrough or going throug and had less time here. We can not prioritise those who can pay it off or had more time because they had less to do in their physical life daily. Its like comparing someone just complicated postpartum with some side rich member of family who had time to post the baby pictures on social like he did all the job and now he is sleepy looking for validation because he had more money to get a BAYC while she sold MAYC to cover surgery bills and some, while no one will know what kind of other struggle that person even been through; because she is not loud and focus on actual work when can.

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