AIP-268: ApeCoin DAO Voting Adoption Driven by Good Month Labs

Hey @BojangleGuy! Thanks for the questions and feedback, digging in below:

I really hate having these convos over text and I hope this doesn’t come across as combative.

Firstly, you didn’t sound combative at all! Very good questions, they were pointed and it leads to great dialogue.

Similarly to what @Sasha has mentioned. It seems a bit excessive for the DAO to fund another program where the main goal is to drive participation (This AIP and ThankApe). I do understand that to acquire a “customer” (CAC) there will be some sort of cost but in my opinion those costs are better spent funding a presence at IRL events, fixing our current onboarding system so that those who do come actually know what the DAO is and how it operates, updating our website to be more inviting and informational, etc.

I really can’t argue where the DAO’s funds are best spent. I think if the DAO feels that IRL event money is the best and only way they want to drive adoption, then governance will dictate that desire and I would support such decision fully! I also think that fixing the onboarding process is paramount, but due to this being a DAO and multiple efforts capable executing simultaneously, I don’t see it as a mutually exclusive trade off. I think it is important to invest in all the following simultaneously:

  • Driving adoption of new participants (the idea I propose, IRL events)
  • Increasing effectiveness of onboarding (AIP-251
  • Driving re-engagement of inactive participants (ThankApe)
  • Driving engagement of active and impactful participants (ThankApe)
  • Driving engaged participants to become builders (unsure of anything in the works here, but would love to see it!)

If someone isn’t willing to take the time to learn the structure and workflow of the DAO (which is currently not an easy thing to do), read through AIPs to become an informed voter, and participate because they care about the DAO and not because they are getting a reward, do we really want them in the community anyways?

I kind of have to take a pretty hard stance against this comment – I think everyone should be invited and feel welcome in the community regardless of the level of effort they put forth initially. Just as you have mentioned the onboarding improvement need, I would assume everyone active in this DAO knows that there are droves of talented people who would not contribute here simply because they don’t have the time to grind and learn things that aren’t packaged in a way that is digestible OR easy OR fun. I have made some comments about this topic in the thread on a post to @MisterHype which I am pasting here about the persona of this audience that we know would be effective in here, but they need the motivation. " The Never Fade community has provided us anecdotes that one of the biggest reasons they listen to our podcast is because they feel they get more smart. They learn deeper fundamentals about the space, they learn to get more critical with their thoughts so we know that they have the persona that is motivated to gain necessary and informed decisions – as for governance participation that is the big elephant in the room and the reason why we state in this proposal that we will need to be vigilant with out analytics to make informed decisions to see how many conversions of earners to voters to contributors we can help propagate. We don’t know if they are all the perfect fit for governance in the ApeCoinDAO but we know that they are motivated to make web3 a better and more enjoyable spot and we feel that is the right persona to start with and see if we can help those personas find their way here to help us grow."

I think what ThankApe does well (and even then I am not sure I totally agree with reward based participation in this form either) is that it encourages participation across the board, not just in voting. Increased voting numbers are great, but what the DAO really needs is an increase in builders, ideas, leaders, and members who are here to support the DAO’s vision.

Fully agreed with the increase in all those areas and addressed those areas in the bullet points above. I don’t think it is a trade-off scenario, I think we can drive this from multiple angles. Getting educated in an easy and fun way and having a voting record logged and tracked is top of funnel for all those other things.

In your budget you mention ApeCoin funding 24% of each shows cost which of my math is correct that would be $732 per show? You then ask for only $6,000 for the actual rewards for those who vote. Essentially the whole point of your AIP, to increase number of voters through rewards, is only receiving roughly 8% of your entire budget. To me that reads as “We want to increase voter participation by rewarding people with $APE who vote, we are asking for $69,420 of which only $6000 will actually be given to voters as rewards. The rest will fund our podcast and the development of a dApp.” Do you have any plans in place that would fund voter rewards beyond this initial $6000? To pay $46,000 for a dApp that is obsolete after only 3 months of use would be a massive sunk cost.

The dApp is definitely not obsolete after the 3 months, it can continue to be used and expanded on with findings from the data. The larger vision (which isn’t a part of this project scope) if the analytics give us reason to further invest would be to open this dApp up to other media distributions so they can take a “sponsorship” from the ApeCoin DAO and provide their listeners with perks and benefits that benefit the DAO, there would be low costs from that point forward and allow for a huub and spoke model of outside incentivization that keeps ApeCoin DAO participation top of mind for a lot of listeners who place their attn on these outlets.

The reward amount for incentivization we requested is is low because we felt it was egregious to ask for a large $APE allocation for this without having the data. If the amount of $APE is run through AND the analytics give us reason and a track record to show that this was a net-positive experience we can then have justification to request more. You are correct that this amount is mainly funding development and podcast production, but out of this funding the ApeCoin DAO receives the highlighted media from the podcast show and a show that is motivated to encourage and push people to an experience that we have curated for the listeners that we know and understand. For instance if we were to motivate people to go to ThankApe and go through the UX that is there today, they would just assume we were getting paid to say it and didn’t have skin in the game like this proposal allows us to have.

Thanks!
-GoodMonth

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Thank you @Sasha!

You have great opinions, love to hear them. Will DM the ThankApe team and see!

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Thanks for the additional insight. It is all super helpful. It is always hard to explain everything in detail with just text. As I mentioned before, I can tell you and your team have put a ton of effort into this idea. It would be cool to do a twitter space or even a discord VC with you and your team and the community. I think it would provide needed context and allow for this AIP to be understood much more clearly.

I mean we are essentially play a game of shark tank via text messages on here. Not ideal when trying to explain a concept with as much depth and your AIP idea has. And not an ideal situation for something that has a lot of potential, as this does!

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Hi @goodmonth,

It’s important to have a diverse community with different levels of expertise and engagement, and I hope those proposed initiative can help bring in more motivated individuals who can contribute to the DAO in different ways.

Additionally, It’s good to know that the dApp can continue to be used and expanded on with the data collected. I’m also intrigued by the possibility of opening up the dApp to other media distributions in the future.

Overall, I think this proposal has potential, and I look forward to seeing how it develops.

-Mr. Hype :fire:

This topic was automatically closed after 7 days. New replies are no longer allowed.

Hi @goodmonth,

Thank you for your ideas [and the ApeCoin DAO community for the thoughtful discussions]. A moderator will get in touch with the author to draft the AIP in the appropriate template. Once the AIP is drafted and meets all the DAO-approved guidelines, the proposal will be posted on Snapshot for live official voting at: Snapshot

Follow this Topic as further updates will be posted here in the comments. @goodmonth please see your messages for the next steps.

-Vulkan

Hi ApeCoin DAO Community,

@goodmonth has completed editing their AIP Idea to be their AIP Draft.

Follow this Topic as further updates will be posted here in the comments.

Kind Regards,

-Amplify

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Good job @goodmonth :ok_hand:

Thank You @foxtroll73!

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Hi ApeCoin DAO Community,

@goodmonth has responded to our questions and has provided consent to share them in this forum for the community.

  1. Technical Risk Mitigation: What measures are in place to manage the technical risk associated with the development of the custom dApp?
  • We will be using a thirdweb library base with a modifications to fit the claiming use-case described in this AIP
  • Modifications will be audited by a 3rd party, and reporting of checks will be provided as results for our users to review on the custom dApp
  • 3rd party audit will ensure that only 1 owner can control the $APE funds, claim limits are enforced, owners can not request approvals of wallet owners, owner of contract can only request a signature.
  • Design of the scope reduces technical risk by ensuring the following scope is implemented and tested: No set approval executions will be required by wallet owners, all wallet owners will have the ability to use delegate.cash so they can connect with a hot wallet that they feel comfortable with to sign for receiving $APE coin, and wallet owners that want to use a custodial wallet will have the capability of doing so simply by signing up with an email.
  1. Is the Ape Foundation expected to engage in any of the steps of the AIP implementation? If so, please specify the step and elaborate how it is expected to work.
  • We are fully capable of building, implementing, distributing and reporting. The only thing we would want access to is a snapshot API so we could pull in the latest AIP if it is not publicly available. If the Ape Foundation feels they need to add legal or compliance verbiage to our T&C’s than that is something we are happy to work closely with the Ape Foundation on.
  1. Do you provide consent to share these questions and answers with the community in this forum?
  • Yes.

A DAR package is being worked on and upon completion this AIP will move into Administrative Review. Follow this Topic as further updates will be posted here in the comments.

Kind Regards,

-12GAUGE

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Which third party?

The contract cost and timing by previous third party was 3-4 times cost and extra unnecessary year.

Lets be very selective here and EXTRA safe.

Hi ApeCoin DAO Community,

Our team has reviewed and discussed @goodmonth 's AIP Draft and have sent a list of initial questions. We await answers.

Follow this Topic as further updates will be posted here in the comments.

Kind Regards,

-12GAUGE

Hi ApeCoin DAO Community,

@goodmonth has responded to our questions and has provided consent to share them in this forum for the community.

  • Cake has been used by other projects in the past, have there been any exploits on Cake previously? Please share if so.

We have had no exploits within our other projects, we rely on open source libraries that are hardened by open source contributors as well as battle tested by numerous users outside of our distribution, with that said, I specifically have a cybersecurity vulnerability discovery background so am aware that exploits in open source libraries can always be discovered and effect existing Implementations. If that were ever tooccur we have a risk mitigation process that would ultimately trade off operations for safety and ensure none of our users were exposed to any new risk identified. We don’t anticipate this occurring but are prepared to monitor, mitigate and report if necessary.

  • You are unable to estimate engagement for ApeCoin, can you provide some KPIs from EQLZ or Baz Golf?

I could provide numbers but I don’t think that is too relevant to this proposal as those are two different use-cases and ecosystems, the best engagement metric would be what we currently have with the podcast NeverFade which is the distribution line we are focusing on here in scope. These numbers have been provided in our proposal, any other metrics with the podcast you would like to see that have not been included in the proposal?

  • Is the payment of $69,420 requested in your AIP upfront or based on milestones?

Great question. We did not layout the payment in milestones, but we would be happy to revise the payment cadence to ensure that we have alignment on when the payments unlock. I will revise and make modification to our budgeting section to include milestones, there is no need for us to ask for everything upfront.

  • How and where do you plan to use the ApeCoin logo?

We can use it as little or as much as required. Does the DAO have brand and legal guidelines we can review? As of now I would ideally like to use the ApeCoin logo for the “advertisement” on the podcast that is pushing people to get engaged in the ApeCoin experience via our dApp. I would also like to have the ApeCoin logo on our dApp either on the homepage or in a partnership support section. If this is a barrier for legal and they want to reduce ApeCoin branding we can reduce and comply with what is necessary. Out goal is to get ApeCoin DAO as much exposure and adoption as the DAO can have.

  • Are there maximum and minimum $APE a user can earn?

Yes minimum would be 1 APE, and the maximum estimate is 24 $APE with the ability to expand a maximum limits upon future approval of replenished $APE coin amounts. We will reverse the right to increase or decrease the max limit if some technical limitation creates a trade-off that is unforeseen.

  • Does the team have a contingency plan if users earn 100% of the $APE pool prior to the 3 month period ending?

We feel that asking for more budget of $APE coin before providing proper analytics in a follow up proposal is short sighted. The amount of $APE coin to start is low, but will give us enough data and metrics to make informed decisions off the iterations we need to make. It is possible that the $APE pool is gone and we aren’t seeing the metrics that we like to benefit the DAO, at the point we would need to put together a proposal to improve the offering and therefore earn a re-up of the pool via a new proposal. It is also possible that the metrics and data are pointing to very healthy and desirable results and the proposal to refill the $APE budget is simply asking for more $APE to continue the concerted effort. What we don’t want is for the DAO to assume that just cause we run out, we will require more. We need the data and metrics to inform when and how the next pool gets distributed.

  • Do you provide consent to share these questions with the community in this forum?

Yes! Absolutely

A DAR package is being worked on and upon completion this AIP will move into Administrative Review. Follow this Topic as further updates will be posted here in the comments.

Kind Regards,

-12GAUGE

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Hi ApeCoin DAO Community,

We have no further questions for @goodmonth . This AIP is now under Administrative Review.

Follow this Topic as further updates will be posted here in the comments.

Kind Regards,

-12GAUGE

Hey There!

Checking in on this administrative review and if there is any other information I can provide as we are planning our roadmap and wanting to keep this moving so we can account for it amongst our priorities.

Thanks!
/goodmonth

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Hi @goodmonth ,

No added information is needed, your AIP is currently undergoing an Administrative Review by the Special Council. We will provide you with an update as soon as they become available. We appreciate your patience.

-12GAUGE

@12GAUGE.admin @vulkan.admin

Would one of you mind looking into this? It feels pretty odd for this AIP to be stalled for over a month even after sitting in the discussions and being active for the required time.

Any help or suggestions would be great!

Thanks!
/goodmonth

Hi @goodmonth ,

I will follow up and report back with an update as soon as possible. Appreciate your patience with this.

Thank you,

-12GAUGE

Hey @12GAUGE.admin @vulkan.admin I am told that this will be going live tonight at 9pm ET.

Based on how long it took to get this approved can you please update the roadmap slide with this PNG as the months need to be shifted 1 month’s time.

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