I would happily accept a style guide or list of dos and don’ts. I think this might be the most appropriate course of action to the DAO that both ensures proper usage of the IP and while also allowing for creative/artistic freedom. There can always be a clause that states that should the use of the digital license run afoul of anything that hurts, degrades, or dilutes the value of the IP or the DAO will causes the license to be revoked.
That was an amazing response. You have answered all my queries and more. I’m excited to see see this AIP go through. I could definitely use some Apecoin Merch. Please try to include International Shipping in your plans as I need my Merch to reach me in India.
Congrats on submitting a proposal and from what I know of the DaoPunks community, they are a great community and their merch is pretty neat too!
From what I could understand reading through this AIP
I feel you missed an opportunity to articulate what the value to the overall community is if a license was granted to essentially commercialize the Brand and IP of the DAO.
Should the brand & IP just be changed to CC0 and then this removes the need for AIPs? to request a license for example if AIPs are granted licences to commercialise the DAO asssets (which could be different considerations if this AIP operated as a NFP etc)
I feel if this proposal included some % of sales donated back to a social good/community cause then it may demonstrate some “value” of why the community should get behind this AIP might have made the AIP much stronger.
I am not against monetizing any idea or product or service, although if the assets requested from AIPs involve the brand & IP of the DAO, I feel then there will need to be something compelling in the AIP for the community to consider why this makes sense.
My experience with Dropshipping and Print on Demand is quality is getting better but allowing community members to decide what is quality and what is low quality (subject to their levels of experience) and considering every single touch point of product or service out in the community will reflect and impact directly back to the ACD, irrespective if the Blue Skull Logo license was granted and approved to community members.
This does reflect my view on your proposal I think its great where I challenge the proposal is the commercial use of the ACD assets and IP (without any further info on any additional social or public goods attached to this AIP)
QC (Quality Control) is hard to manage in-house for most businesses at the best of times and I think the challenge with this proposal among other considerations is “QC” will form only part.
I can sense your enthusiasm for the community and being able to “rep the brand” so to speak but I’m not quite sure what the overall “value” for the community would be to grant a license for this.
Where I’d say you could improve upon is clarifying benefit to the community and differentiating this from us just uploading the logo to any of the dozens of print-on-demand online sites to get our personal merch (for which no permission is needed since it’s not commercial).
I agree with @Rozay here. I can’t find any benefit to the community explicitly listed in the proposal except for this one below:
Could you elaborate on “brand exposure”? It seems the target audience for this merch is existing community, so when you say exposure, to whom and where? Will this be promoted somewhere perhaps?
Right now the only benefit seems that we can order this, but we can already do this (for personal use) at many places online and for cheaper than $35 (though maybe with inflation not anymore, not sure). The design is the standard design that every print-on-demand merch store produces when you upload a logo image, so this doesn’t stand out in that regard either.
Given the above, my suggestions are:
Give back 20% of profits to DAO or some community project (like ThankApe)
Post more interesting/cool designs that automated websites can’t produce
Specify benefits to the community vs ordering individual shirts: perhaps you know a specific vendor that has better-quality or cheaper blanks in stock, or maybe those with 25+ $ape in wallet can get 10% discount, 100+ $ape - 20% or similar tiers.
Elaborate on brand exposure, as in specific ways new people can get exposed to the DAO and also learn about it. For example: can we add a little note with each shipped t-shirt that has apecoin’s mission/value statements and maybe link to website?
Consider limiting the license to specific amount of merch. Especially as a new member, this would be good to earn trust of the voters first, then next AIP you do a year-long license.
I think these things will really help your proposal feel thoughtful to the voters and make it stand out. The benefits will also be easier to understand, leading to an easier In Favor vote. I could be wrong, of course, please take this as my opinion only, nothing more.
As far as designs:
I’d remove logo from the back, it makes the shirt feel more plasticky when you print large images like that (except for one specific print method, but it isn’t available with print-on-demand services)
I’d love to see skull-only minimalist design, no word
hey @LiveFast9986 , I’ve gone through your proposal and I think it’s a great idea. I think it would be a great way to show support for the ApeCoin brand and community, and it would also help to raise awareness of ApeCoin outside of our community. More
Thank you for your thorough review and detailed response. Let me try my best to address each of your concerns:
I can see your view on this and I will agree that I did not address this as thoroughly as it should be. Looking back on what I wrote, this can definitely be better detailed and explained then just my statement of “providing members a means of showcasing their enthusiasm and support of the Apecoin Brand and the its community”. But also, in a way, I did touch on this benefits of doing so.
There is an implied and inherent benefit to the commercialization of brand and IP. Most in the form of free marketing and advertisement, but more importantly a showcase of the strength and support of the community involved. Through commercialized licensing, the DAO is capable of outsourcing a task to someone else allowing them to focus on other tasks, while also delegating this tasks to a community members that is eager and interested in doing this. This allows the DAO to both establish a value to their own IP based on the commercial success of this endeavor while also supporting their own community members that want to support the DAO in their own way. Because it is a limited license, the DAO can always pursue this endeavor on its own after the expiration or, as I suggested in another comment, can revoke the license from me if it determines that I have run afoul, bring harm, or diluting the value of the brand.
This is a 100% no from me. Apecoin DAO should not switch to CC0 as it removes their ability to protect their IP. Having AIPs requesting usage of their IP is definitely a good way for now. Maybe a governing board specifically for licensing can be made in the future to help better streamline this process and also evaluate products that utilize it for compliance may/will be necessary in the future.
Has there been any other previous commercial AIP where there was a defined % of sales donated back to the DAO? Should this be approved and this project be successful, it would behoove me to donate back to the community to help foster more AIPs.
Does a need for merchandise that is both affordable and easily accessible globally not meet this criteria? Or are you looking for another reason outside of this?
Quality is subjective. What I may think is good may not be good to someone else. There is also a balance needed when considering Quality, Global Availability, and Price. I can make something extremely High Quality, but it will come at a cost and may be limited in Global Availability. For me and this proposal, its about finding the balance of the three.
I hope this response does a bit more to help clarify.
Thank you again for your thoughts and time spent responding to this.
I believe I have addressed the first part in response to @Rozay here:
However, as to differentiating this from you or anyone else uploading the logos and designs to any online site and creating it yourself, the truth is there isn’t. This entire endeavor started off because I wanted to make some patches and a t-shirt for myself. However, realizing that the cost between 3-4 patches was equivalent to ordering in bulk of about 50-100 patches it would seem more cost effective and beneficial if I could do the bulk order and then offer them up to the community at the cost per item. However, because that is a commercializing of the product using the IP without consent and because there appears to be hunger in the community for merchandise, I decided to give this a shot and see if I can help out the community with something I was already thinking of doing just for myself.
While being cliché does this also not suffice?
The entire endeavor is for the purposes of creating merchandises that has been properly licensed, and there appears to be a want for such merchandise in some form. I could have definitely explicitly stated this.
You are correct. Anybody can do this. I’m just trying to help make it more accessible to those who don’t want to, don’t know how to start, or are unavailable to spend their time doing so.
As i briefly touched on with @Rozay what have other commercialized AIPs done with this regards? Do we have a set % previously used? I am not opposed to this, but we shouldn’t have a number without any proper context or evaluation.
As for more interesting cool designs, I do envision a future in which I am able to higher artists within the community and then pay them royalties based on sales.
As for benefits to the community vs ordering individual shirts, as I mentioned above this just helps facilitate a means for those who dont want to, are unable to, or dont want to spend their time creating their own merch. As for percentage based on owned ape, that can be an avenue to consider in the future.
As for an brand exposure, let me try my best to elaborate a bit for you and others. The idea of this project is for the purposes of selling merchandise with the specific use of the DAOs name and logo. By virtue of merchandise the DAO is gaining free marketing and advertisement through its community members wearing and showcasing their merchandise. This will allow the DAO to capitalize on this movement, through its endorsement of the use of their IP, to help showcase that both the DAO exists and its mission/guiding values. It can be further utilizes as a means of IRL recruitment, to showcase that membership is not dictated by means of owning a BAYC/MAYC/etc. but rather holding APEcoin.
As for limiting the license to specific merch. I had originally thought of that, but as they say, go big or go home. Ideally, if this were to be successful, I would love to use this to help hire other community artists to design the merch and pay them royalties for it.
I’m pretty sure we are on the exact same page of what quality should be. I have done a few test prints for my other projects and they do not give this impression. The printing technique used did not have provide this same feel and I know exactly what you are describing as I have received shirts that have had this exact same feel you are describing.
A skull-only minimalist design is great, however I will have to be wary about what belongs to IP of Apecoin DAO and what belongs to Yuga as this is for a license of the IP of Apecoin DAO and not Yuga.
I hope this helps address your concerns. Please let me know if you have any follow ups or if I need to clarify anything else. Thank you again for your time and comment.
Oh i did forgot to mention this with regards to this:
You are correct in that I am a new member. I am not well known (if at all have any value to my name) but I am here trying to explain a proposal for something that I have some experience in and am willing to give it my all in doing this.
I hope that me being new does not provide a detriment to this proposal or idea.
I hope you don’t take my takes as me personally criticizing. It’s just that most AIPs don’t pass (even when feedback here on the forums is positive, as people posting here represent a tiny fraction of voters).
So I’m trying to bring to light questions that others may have when voting so you can include answer in your draft and have higher chance of getting your idea passed. I’ve done quite a bit of merch (you do a lot of it when you run an esports team, from jerseys to hoodies to jackets to hats to socks etc), so I’ve had some lessons about what creates the most excitement and hence the suggestions. I’m always dry, it’s my writing style, but the intent is nothing but positive. <3
No, 20% is only a suggestion, a number that sounds significant enough. You can pick any number you like. Or none at all.
IMHO, it would strengthen your proposal to find those artists now, jump on a call with them, and have them commit to it here, on the forum. It costs nothing. It’s likely they’d give you a simple free design to add to AIP, too. Just my opinion/suggestion.
I meant the entire logo, which is skull + blue background, apologies for the confusion.
I think that of course it does - that’s just human psychology. Given identical idea, the difference in support when proposed by an established member vs new member will be huge. Same way as founders with successful exits have much, much easier time getting VC funding than new founders do. Your best friend will have easier time borrowing money from you than a stranger. Doesn’t matter if it’s money, attention, a favor - same thing. None of us can escape this basic risk management / trust mechanic, it’s not personal. But it’s only a suggestion to start smaller / more focused; if you feel it’s not necessary, then totally great, just ignore it.
If any of this is helpful, feel free to add on discord (@sashanft), happy to chat more if you’d like.
Oh no worries. I’m actually enjoying the feedback as it keeps things realistic. I’ve been looking at the some of the other AIPs and Snapshots and can see that some really good ideas don’t make it.
No worries at all. I don’t think I’ll be able to please everyone nor will I be able to account for everything. Merch is one of those things that appear to get everyone hyped, but can also be the down fall if not properly executed or given the proper love and attention that it deserves. I’m not trying to flood the community and this place with needless items.
I’ve been thinking about this a lot lately the last few days. I’m not entirely sure what a good number is but I do know that some % of profits from sales should be sent back to the DAO as both compensation for use of the IP and to also provide value back to the IP. I would like the ability to do a “wait and see” because it’s unclear how much sales this will yield with a re-evaluation in 3-, 6-, 9- months to see how sales go or a give what I can give back. The latter seems a bit of a “trust me bro” vibe, but I’m also trying to be as upfront and honest about all of this.
I will look into this.
Should the initial start of this endeavor is successful, a future goal of this project is to hire artists for their work and give them royalties. I don’t want to jump too far into this without having a good handle of how this will go, and I also don’t want to flood the community with and unnecessary amount of products.
Thank you for your ideas [and the ApeCoin DAO community for the thoughtful discussions]. A moderator will get in touch with the author to draft the AIP in the appropriate template. Once the AIP is drafted and meets all the DAO-approved guidelines, the proposal will be posted on Snapshot for live official voting at: Snapshot
Follow this Topic as further updates will be posted here in the comments. @LiveFast9986 please see your messages for the next steps.