AIP-83: Proposal for ApeFi to receive ApeCoin token Grant - Ecosystem Fund Allocation

Final AIPs Returned For Reconstruction
23

I have some questions/concerns.

  1. What is the breakdown of where the ApeCoin goes? i.e. How much is going to “general overhead”?
  2. TerraUSD tried to collateralize a stablecoin with crypto and failed. What are you doing differently to prevent the same fate?
  3. The website is not transparent. There is no mention of the team or how any of this works.
  4. On your website, it shows a 270.72% APR and only $266,402.63 locked on Uniswap. This is not sustainable. What is your long term plan?
  5. Giving only the people who vote FOR this APEFI tokens comes off like a bribe.
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24

Just embarrassing, and evidently anything connected to this “Ape Finance”. Incredible it was even conceived and proposed, as plainly against a DAO’s rules and common sense.

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25

It is info that was shared with me and looks very interesting - to call it ‘misinformation’ is a lie as you cannot say that for sure.

I shared as was shared with me and felt others can make their own minds up.

Someone shared with me as they see I obviously got a bad gut feeling from the start on this one.

Why are we talking about your twitter feed here? please keep on topic.

BTW let me educate you a little:

Slander meaning:
the action or crime of making a false spoken statement damaging to a person’s reputation.

What you mean is:

Libel meaning:
a published false statement that is damaging to a person’s reputation; a written defamation.

I’m sure we haven’t spoken lol.

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26

I am not misinformed I hold Ape coin. We should be supporting the community.

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27

Bro that’s literally nothing but false allegations. I’m baffled to say the least.

28

Can we all move to DMs for personal replies etc - this is for discussion of the AIP.

We share info and thoughts and questions relating to the AIP and then people make up their minds, anon accounts which joined the community hours ago hold little to no weight imho [Doug joined 20 hours ago lol]

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29

You are the one going off topic, I strictly stated my reasons which I will be supporting the proposal. No reason to be angry we are all on the same side here wether we agree or disagree

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30

Your reply you talk about borrowing against your APE - there is no such feature - I was simply pointing this fact out to you.

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31

Borrowing against my APE coin not my bored ape. I should have been more clear.

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32

Move to DMs - if you want to chat and lets leave the authors to reply to any of the questions from many members above - which all have failed to do for several days now.

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33

This is a forum I’m not going to move to DMs.

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34

This was your reply here:

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35

This is not for personal replies back and fourth and is for discussion of proposal if you want to get personal with me etc message me using the message button - it is quite safe lol and i dont bite!

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37

Can you please start to address some of our concerns - you have posted this AIP and made no effort to discuss or counter any of the communities reservations and comments for several days now - again this is just another big RED FLAG imho as anyone who has solid foundations and motivations would be doing their best to allay our fears and concerns asap.

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38

I mean what else could I have been talking about. It’s pretty easy to Interpret. Also you must be patient I just joined this forum yesterday. I plan on providing feedback for every proposal requesting grants. I view things from both sides and have lots of experience with voting and delegations. You should be providing feedback/suggestions to the Apefi team and help them make a proposal that benefits the community. No need for the bashing etc.

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40

lol - you have not read my posts with questions then above as we have all asked many questions already but had no reply from the authors.

Also I am glad you are here and will look forward to your input on other proposals.

No one is bashing - just raising genuine concerns. I think approximately four people have asked questions now and the team are yet to reply to a single one, after posting the current AIP four days ago.

Anyway, I am not going to reply to you anymore unless you propose or put forward something on this AIP that is constructive and is not directed towards me personally.

41

We all have many questions; feedback has also been given, along with many concerns raised - but since the AIP went live four days ago now we have had no responses from the ‘team’ - another RED FLAG imho.

How can anyone get the time to make suggestions when I am constantly replying to petty comments and ludicrous insinuations and comments by 0xsword and yourself - all other posts are raising genuine questions that the team posting AIP are failing to address for some reason.

Anyway - let’s all move on and get back to the task in hand please.

42

Thank you for your input to our proposal in the past days. We’ve answered questions point by point below. Please do feel free to ask any follow-up questions you may have. As a point of clarification, ApeUSD can be borrowed with ApeCoin/APE as collateral. ApeFi has not offered an NFT lending service yet for BAYC, MAYC etc. NFTs.

Why not fund the project ourselves?
The team did in fact fund all of the development up to this point. We agree and have done it this way, so that we can show exactly what this first ApeUSD product is before asking for any amount of support.

Why $1m+ USD worth of ApeCoin?
Most of the funds requested will be going toward protocol owned liquidity and not for overhead and audits. As mentioned by a previous reply, protocol owned liquidity benefits the ApeCoin community in that a deeper liquidity pool will better serve ApeUSD’s usability. This would allow for more APE to be collateralized for ApeUSD safely. Furthermore, we would like to use the allocated ApeCoins as collateral to borrow against. To borrow safely, based on a 60% LTV and a 50% buffer to borrowing power, we would start with only ~30% of the requested funds as usable funds. At $6/ApeCoin, this means we could safely borrow 450,000 ApeUSD with low risks of liquidations. This helps the ApeCoin community by reducing sell pressure on ApeCoin itself.

Stablecoins are scary. UST from Terra/LUNA failed.
ApeUSD is modeled after DAI. ApeUSD is overcollateralized with APE, much like how the original DAI was collateralized with ETH. Here’s a good explainer on the difference: Why Maker's DAI Is Surviving Even After Collapse of Terra's Decentralized Stablecoin - Decrypt

Transparency / Doxxed team
It is common practice in DeFi to have anon teams. Yearn Finance, Convex Finance, Sushi to name a few. We also agree in having transparency. A transparency dashboard is on the roadmap, where users will be able to better visualize the status of the ApeFi protocol. In the meantime, all of the collateralized ApeCoins and ApeUSD movements can be tracked 100% on-chain here Ape Finance: apeAPE Token | Address 0xcab90816f91cc25b04251857ed6002891eb0d6fa | Etherscan and here ApeUSD (ApeUSD) Token Tracker | Etherscan

Comparing ApeFi with Nexo and Binance
This is comparing apples to oranges, between centralized services with decentralized services. Many DeFi users do not use the likes of Nexo, Binance, Celsius, Blockfi, and other centralized crypto lending services because they believe in decentralization and holding their own keys. We at ApeFi also agree that the true web3 spirit is one where users hold their own funds - not your keys, not your coins (or Apes / ApeCoins). Using Nexo/Binance is very different from using Maker/DAI or ApeUSD.

Machibigbrother’s ZachXBT writeup
Machibigbrother is a supporter of ApeFi and believes in the vision, just as he’s a supporter of the ApeCoin community and related projects. We see benefit in having his support. His participation is clearly documented on machibigbrother.eth. Regarding the writeup specifically, it is not fact checked, is biased, and includes many inaccuracies. We certainly don’t believe everything we read on the internet. People are welcome to ask either ZachXBT or Machibigbrother to address deeper questions around that post.

APEFI token for Voters
The model of distributing governance tokens to voters is a common pattern that Curve and Convex have already done. While initially controversial, many have moved to accept this as an additional benefit in the tokenomics of CRV and CVX. Our goal was to stimulate voter participation and distribute APEFI governance tokens into the hands of the ApeCoin community.

We will modify APEFI token distribution to ALL voters, regardless of FOR or AGAINST.

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43

Thank you for addressing my questions/concerns.

Changing to a reward system that benefits all the apecoin community and not just those who vote YES will give you far more exposure and much more chatter around the table if passed, as people will be relaying news to whole community and not just a few - great idea to do that and credit where credit is due.

I think yearn is run or was at least founded by Andre Cronje - but I do acknowledge that there are precedents for anon teams running successful DEXs/DeFi. However, I am opposed to this idea when we are handing out large sums for free in grants. There is no safety net for recourse should the worse happen imho and also there’s not really anyway to conduct true due diligence and good fact based research - history of your backgrounds, achievements and failures etc would all help one decide whether or not to grant this large sum of money to your team; but maybe this is a much bigger question/topic and should not be solely directed at your AIP proposal?

Again, thank you for the response, and I will step back and allow others to comment etc.

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44

Initially your reply was quite late for me and I have had time to fully read your responses and I would like to raise further concerns in your replies:

So you mention about other DeFi/DEX offerings which are anon - however, you fail to disclose why you have chosen to take this path other that by saying basically, we are doing the exact same as others, to me this is not a reason, just an excuse. Being able to track assets using Etherscan is a given, this in no way should be offered as a reassurance of safety - where else would one expect the assets to be/go but on chain and traceable lol [well there are options like TORNADO CASH or similar [mixers] which allow assets on chain to be jumbled up together and then withdrawn, whilst leaving anyone using Etherscan scratching their heads as to their final destination].

You also say “not your keys not your coins” and comparing apefi to NEXO and BINANCE is comparing “apples to oranges”, but this is nonsense as once one borrows against their apecoin the coins are in your custody [unless you have a new and unique way for the lender to keep hold of their apecoin after borrowing against them], this therefore only goes to strengthen my argument of why to use NEXO and BINANCE over apefi as they are a doxxed platform, have large market share, massive backing and imho are a much safer option to relequish custody of my apecoins than an anon team who’s history I cannot check in any shape or form. The mentioned platforms and your idea offer almost exact same end result - the custody of my apecoin is lost once I borrow against them.

Question - If the VOTE fails and you continue with apefi will the distribution of apefi tokens still be given to all apecoin holders or would you simply shut it down?

The problem here is I borrow on Friday and wake up on Monday and the single website, two anon twitter accounts and a few other anon options with very small followings are gone, I’m left to do what? For me to trust you it is not good enough imho when asking for millions plus in free grants.

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