AIP Idea: Immutable X to be ApeCoin DAO's Trusted Layer 2 Scaling Partner

Agreed. A lot of these solutions are really early. All of these existing L2s have had outages due to their centralized sequencers. I don’t think any of the existing solutions are very decentralized nor have that great of a user experience. We should evaluate all technology solutions objectively. Does immutable x support smart contracts yet or is it just NFTs? How mature is the starkware tech stack? Looks like things are written in Cairo, how mature is that? How decentralized and fault tolerant are starkware nodes that construct proofs? I saw DYDX that was running on starkware went down because of an AWS outage. We need to know all of the risks.

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Just saying it’s an L2 that shares ethereum security doesn’t mean it’s completely safe. See my comment above. We as a community need to take a critical look into how these technologies work.

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Truly support this. Immutable is the best ERC L2 so far as we do not need to shift any assets anywhere else, it is on ERC itself. Convenient and zero gas.

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There is a lot to like here. This is Ethereum-based, and there are some ties to Yuga. However, for this ape, I’m uncomfortable partnering so strongly so quickly. Is this an opt-in system, or would all ape be migrated to this L2? I’m not deep in the weeds on L2s, can we use something more well known like Polygon instead? For me, I’d like to see a more incremental progress that doesn’t require us to choose a life partner in a week.

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Hello Immutable X & team! Many of us are positive about your brand. Send team members to explain and talk more. Hear our feedback about how we can’t control the Otherside or Yuga Labs and make adjustments.

How can you help our DAO expand into other games? What is going to take from us to do so?

@mg above makes great points above that should be addressed by your team members before moving forward. Thank you!!

@0xSword @mg @apein @GuruOfTroyHill (and the rest of the ApeCoin Community): We hear you!

Immutable X is hosting a Twitter Spaces Town Hall on Thursday (June 2) @ 7 PM PST to answer questions raised in our proposal comments. Robbie Ferguson (Co-Founder & President) will be moderating.

Is a representative from the ApeCoin DAO community interested in co-hosting with Robbie? Comment here and we can set it up - would love to have you as a part of the dialogue.

Information below:

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I vote for @mg and @0xSword to cohost. Imo they provide tangible feed back consistently and always add to the conversation. I know there are many others who are qualified but I read, understand and take their points most often within the dialogoues.

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I’d be happy to participate. Not sure I’d be able to co-host but I’d definitely be happy to jump on and into the conversation.

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Hey @mg and @0xSword - Lets do it. Keep an eye out for a Twitter Spaces speaker invite 5 minutes before we go live!

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Alright - game on! Let’s talk about ApeCoin and gaming and how Immutable X can further our expansion into that world. Thanks for the invite!

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See you there @0xSword !!! :fire: :fire: :fire: :fire:

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Hi @Immutable_X,

Your topic will be automatically closing in around 24 hours. Are you content with the feedback received, or do you wish to extend community discussion for a further 7 days?

We look forward to hearing from you.

- river

Hi @river,

Can we extend the community discussion for 7 days?

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Hi @Immutable_X,

Thank you for being part of the community, we love the collaboration. We are happy to keep the topic open for another 7 days

- river

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Thank you @Immutable_X for inviting some of us to speak tonight. Your brand has a lot of passion for gaming and I liked having the opportunity to provide some feedback. If we can find ways to incentivize and simplify the process for developers, it’s a positive thing for the entirety of the ecosystem!

We’re now much more clear about not being able to control the Otherside. And being able to have our token used on your L2 & gaming marketplace would help with introducing $APE to new audiences.

For those who want to listen to the space recording:
https://twitter.com/i/spaces/1yoKMWzLvOpJQ (link expires July 2nd)

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THANKS! @0xSword and @mg for taking the time to discuss this proposal with Robbie F. and the Immutable X team. I just finished listening to the recording and I encourage everyone to also take the time to listen and understand the questions, the concerns and the scope of what is happening and potential. I am very encouraged by the excellent communication that both MG and 0x made to the Immut. X team. I also very much appreciated the candor and sincerity that Immut. X brought forth. The MVP discussed I think is the most immportant point for gaining DAO consensus. Also, taking small steps with Proposals and adding contengencies for other stake holders who the ApeDao can not speak for is important. Awesome, and very excited to see things progress.

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I enjoyed listening to the spaces. But I had some further questions about Starknet. Starks seems cool but are we sure we want to deploy on something so early and untested? The EVM and solidity took a few years to mature. Starks look cool but they are completely new technologies. Also smart contracts are whitelisted, that’s pretty centralized. Here is an excerpt from the article below.

Starknet is currently the only general purpose, composable zk-rollup on mainnet. However, the system is still in an early alpha mode with multiple restrictions. The bridge between StarkNet and Ethereum is limited to a certain amount of TVL which has gradually increased since launch. Smart contract deployment on StarkNet is also whitelisted. I’d consider this is primarily to reduce the risk of smart contact bugs occurring as there likely isn’t enough (any?) auditors to audit all the Cairo contracts that developers want to deploy – makes sense that StarkWare would temporarily take on this role. Auditability is one of the general downsides towards new, custom languages which is only compounded by the complexity of zk systems. Ultimately, StarkNet is currently leads the pack.

Source: A snapshot of the current rollup ecosystem

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@0xSword @mg Thanks for joining us last night and @Mifune appreciate the recap / assessment of the Town Hall. The Immutable team will put forth a proposed MVP to the ApeCoin DAO community as the first step in a phased approach. Ideally, this allows all stakeholders involved to feel comfortable.

We’d love to scope the MVP in collaboration with the ApeCoin community. @mg we reached out and hope to speak ASAP.

Do any additional ApeCoin DAO members want to be part of the discussion?

Twitter Spaces recording below:

https://twitter.com/i/spaces/1yoKMWzLvOpJQ

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We’re witnessing the accelerating competition of L2 solutions. No doubts all of them could evolve the Ape ecosystem. But the point is which one is the perfect option. IMX is the leader of p2e/metaverse/NFT-associated L2 solutions, so the deep evaluation of possible L2 scaling is crucial.

I played Gods Unchained and participated in the Illuvium Land Sale, IMX is truly a leader in the space, backed by some of the most conservative VCs out there. Really hope APE goes with IMX, it is a win-win, we get to stay in the biggest and “wisest” chain, ERC ($ETH).

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