Hi @Immutable_X,
Thank you for being part of the community, we love the collaboration. We are happy to keep the topic open for another 7 days
- river
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Thank you @Immutable_X for inviting some of us to speak tonight. Your brand has a lot of passion for gaming and I liked having the opportunity to provide some feedback. If we can find ways to incentivize and simplify the process for developers, itās a positive thing for the entirety of the ecosystem!
Weāre now much more clear about not being able to control the Otherside. And being able to have our token used on your L2 & gaming marketplace would help with introducing $APE to new audiences.
For those who want to listen to the space recording:
https://twitter.com/i/spaces/1yoKMWzLvOpJQ (link expires July 2nd)
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THANKS! @0xSword and @mg for taking the time to discuss this proposal with Robbie F. and the Immutable X team. I just finished listening to the recording and I encourage everyone to also take the time to listen and understand the questions, the concerns and the scope of what is happening and potential. I am very encouraged by the excellent communication that both MG and 0x made to the Immut. X team. I also very much appreciated the candor and sincerity that Immut. X brought forth. The MVP discussed I think is the most immportant point for gaining DAO consensus. Also, taking small steps with Proposals and adding contengencies for other stake holders who the ApeDao can not speak for is important. Awesome, and very excited to see things progress.
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I enjoyed listening to the spaces. But I had some further questions about Starknet. Starks seems cool but are we sure we want to deploy on something so early and untested? The EVM and solidity took a few years to mature. Starks look cool but they are completely new technologies. Also smart contracts are whitelisted, thatās pretty centralized. Here is an excerpt from the article below.
Starknet is currently the only general purpose, composable zk-rollup on mainnet. However, the system is still in an early alpha mode with multiple restrictions. The bridge between StarkNet and Ethereum is limited to a certain amount of TVL which has gradually increased since launch. Smart contract deployment on StarkNet is also whitelisted. Iād consider this is primarily to reduce the risk of smart contact bugs occurring as there likely isnāt enough (any?) auditors to audit all the Cairo contracts that developers want to deploy ā makes sense that StarkWare would temporarily take on this role. Auditability is one of the general downsides towards new, custom languages which is only compounded by the complexity of zk systems. Ultimately, StarkNet is currently leads the pack.
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@0xSword @mg Thanks for joining us last night and @Mifune appreciate the recap / assessment of the Town Hall. The Immutable team will put forth a proposed MVP to the ApeCoin DAO community as the first step in a phased approach. Ideally, this allows all stakeholders involved to feel comfortable.
Weād love to scope the MVP in collaboration with the ApeCoin community. @mg we reached out and hope to speak ASAP.
Do any additional ApeCoin DAO members want to be part of the discussion?
Twitter Spaces recording below:
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Weāre witnessing the accelerating competition of L2 solutions. No doubts all of them could evolve the Ape ecosystem. But the point is which one is the perfect option. IMX is the leader of p2e/metaverse/NFT-associated L2 solutions, so the deep evaluation of possible L2 scaling is crucial.
I played Gods Unchained and participated in the Illuvium Land Sale, IMX is truly a leader in the space, backed by some of the most conservative VCs out there. Really hope APE goes with IMX, it is a win-win, we get to stay in the biggest and āwisestā chain, ERC ($ETH).
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Update: Immutable is in the process of scoping an MVP we anticipate the ApeCoin DAO community will be quite happy about. Many thanks @mg for the input!
More to comeā¦
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Canāt wait to see it.
Now with the vote to stay on the Ethereum ecosystem passed, I hope we can use Immutable for scaling.
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Fully agree I would love to see Apecoin in Immutable, will make things much simpler with the release of Otherside.
I like Immutable and have used it recently, its super smooth and can see it being a great option to handle gaming. I donāt think I can support moving to this chain though until a cap on the fees is introduced. The main reason to move off of mainnet is to avoid the gas fees and the congestion. The problem with immutable as it is currently structured though is that the fees will be extremely higher for most assets in the otherside ecosystem. For example selling a Koda land for 20 ETH would be .4 ETH in fees (~$1000) compared to the gas it costs on main net which is like $40-80. The chain is extremely convenient for low value assets but a major hurdle for high value assets. These fees are in addition to the marketplace fees and the royalties.
I havenāt been following this proposal that closely until now but wanted to make sure this was addressed prior to any vote. If it was already mentioned in previous discussions I would love to know the outcome.
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@NFTBeliever This is lightly touched upon in the initial proposal, but fee capping will be up for discussion with the community. More to comeā¦
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Appreciate the response, I have heard it is up for discussion which is great to hear. Donāt think it can be a scenario where we approve it and then hope for a cap though, I think we need to see the cap implemented first. Canāt in good conscience recommend moving to a chain where it ends up costing them even more than it was currently costing them in āgasā which is the case for essentially all Yuga assets.
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This is a reasonable conclusion. I voted to stay on Ethereum as well. I would just caution though that we should respect the fact that the vote was contentious, so more of a āyeah we favor ethereum, I guess kind ofā rather than āgreen light letās L2 Ethereum immediately woo hoo!ā to me.
With that in mind, I would recommend we make slow, incremental steps in the direction of an ethereum L2, Immutable or otherwise. The ānoā votes are community members too and we should respect that there is significant opposition, or at least, a serious lack of consensus right now. Slow and steady on this hugely impactful decision.
Yes this is a great point, the best case scenario is that the fees can be discussed, so that selling a high cost item doesnāt take away in fees more than it does on the main net. All transactions need to be low fee imo for this to work, independently of the asset traded, wether itās a resource for a couple apecoins or a koda for thousands of apecoins/eth.
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This topic was automatically closed after 14 days. New replies are no longer allowed.
Hi @Immutable_X,
Are you content with the feedback received, or do you wish to extend community discussion for a further 7 days?
We look forward to hearing from you.
- river
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Hi ApeCoin DAO Community,
This Topic has been rejected based on the DAO-approved guidelines due to no response in the last 30 days. The Topic may be submitted again by any user and upon approval, will be open for 7 days for community discussions.
This Topic will move and remain in the Withdrawn AIPs category.
-Pearson