A flight to sustainability // Sikorsky UH-60 Black Hawk Helicopter Loan

Hey Raymond, I’m one of the owners of the company that has been talking with 12Guage about this proposal.

Aerial fire fighting is not intended to put out a fire. Almost no amount of water from aircraft can put out a fire. That is the job of ground crews that manually turn logs, and dig the earth. What aerial equipment does is slow or deflect the fire in certain areas to allow structures and communities to be protected by ground equipment. Mineralized earth does not burn, almost everything else in a forest does. But water will knock down a fire and give people on the ground a better chance to deal with it.

Wildland fire is a coordinated attack and not “throwing a cup of water on a lake for 5.7 million”

Some places in the world, government agencies own their own aerial fire fighting equipment, like “Cal-Fire” in California, but most places rely on private the sector and rent their helicopters for fire fighting.

That is what we are proposing. We already own 1 Blackhawk helicopter that will begin fighting in Canada in the 2024 fire season. When it isn’t fighting fires, it will be doing heavy lift operations like building hydro distribution lines.

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Hey CryptoLogically, thanks for your support in hearing out our proposal.

Just to give you some further background on who we are, and where we see benefits to the DAO from our proposal…

We currently own 1 Blackhawk which is being converted into a full NVG (Night Vision) Firehawk. We anticipate it being in Canada in Feb 2024 to begin training with crews. It will be the second Blackhawk helicopter in Canada.

Even before speaking with 12Guage, we have planned additional Blackhawk purchases and converstions into Firehawks. Our first machine was completely self funded by the partnership and is owned free and clear. We don’t have company debt. The revenue projections are healthy with Fire, aerial construction, logging and film projects only available to the very unique class of “heavy” helicopters. This machine has the ability to work all over the world on contracts with governments and industry. Even before receiving the machine, we are booked on film and TV shows and are meeting with major power companies about projects.

That’s why we proposed an interest rate of prime less 2% as a loan structure. We would repay that out of operating income at $1500 per flight hour until the loan and interest are repaid.

The advantage we see to the DAO is the promotional opportunities by being able to tell not only the crypto world, but the main stream media (as well as non traditional media) about the ApeCoin funding a major piece of life saving equipment. It is a story that will gain traction around the world. It is a very unique machine with a very unique financing structure. It will give credibility to the DAO as the virtual world funds a real world solution to a grown international problem.

There is also the opportunity to do a custom wrap job on the machine for Apecoin events or specific promotional opportunities and photo/video.

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What happens if there’s a default on the loan? Will we have authority to recover the asset in that country? And even if we do, how would this work and who will be doing this part if the worse happens?

Feel this is lacking assurity and/or security.

I just don’t wanna see almost six million ‘fly’ away.

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Hi Brad, ill look into the Night Hawk Holdings company. i wasn’t trying to offend you. i just dont feel this DAO is a right fit for that proposal at this time. i had heard about the erroneous things being proposed here and the first thing i see is a black hawk with an ape wrap asking for 1% of the treasury . do you know 12 gauge personally?

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Hey @Raymond ,

Thanks for taking the time to check out the proposal. I have known @Brad for about 10 years now and have flown with him too many times to count. I encouraged Brad and his team to submit this proposal because, with the DAO now able to accept funds, I believe proven businesses like theirs offer a path to sustainability. As the market starts to make 20% moves it may make the return less attractive but I believe the team is flexible, and this is an opportunity I personally wish I had the chance to be a part of.

And don’t worry about @Brad , he has thick skin.

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Hi @12GAUGE,

The community feedback period for your proposal would be ending in less than 24 hours.

  • If you’re content with the feedback received, your next steps are to finalize your proposal using the AIP Draft Template.

  • A moderator will reach out to the author to finalize the AIP Draft. Upon receipt of the final Draft, we will review and provide instructions on the next steps.

  • Are you ready to proceed to the next phase or do you wish to extend community discussion for another 7 days?

We look forward to hearing from you.

-@Facilitators

Can we please extend this for one more week. Thanks @Chris.Admin

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Hi @12GAUGE,

Response acknowledged, we have extended your proposal’s community discussion by an additional seven days.

Thank you for your contributions to the DAO!

Regards,
@Facilitators

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The contract will cover the funds as a loan and be secured to the aircraft. The finish buildout of the Firehawk will be more than enough to cover the loan. Contracts in Canada are just as valid as contracts in other countries.

There are multiple companies in Canada, the US and around the world who specialize in aviation asset recovery in the unlikely event it became necessary.

Right now, it feels like “it’s lacking assurity and/or security.” because the lawyers haven’t papered the loan yet. Everything will be done very standard to normal business procedures, including insurance that will cover the loan in the event of a catastrophic accident or acts of god if this proposal moves forward. If it doesn’t, we’ll continue to fund additional helicopters privately.

And hopefully it’ll help you feel better to know ownership group doesn’t have any defaults on our resumes.

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Hey Raymond. Hope I didn’t come across as offended. Was more trying to convey that aerial fire fighting has a major roll in community protection in a matter of fact way. No offence taken. But it does have its limitations which are well known to fire commanders and has to be used properly to be effective.

This proposal began because 12Gauge and I have coffee and talk regularly. I was showing him the plan and explaining the revenue another helicopter I own makes per year, which is substantial compared to the cost of purchase. 12Guage is obviously looking for ways to make the DAO more sustainable in the future. He pitched us to explore this option. We are very aware it’s a long shot that we also have reservations about.

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Not every good cause is the best way to spend that money. I am totally for life-saving services but why a black hawk helicopter to a company that rents to authorities is that really the most effective use of locking up $5.7 million dollars for that long? and why are we giving it to them with an interest rate more than 75% lower than the prime interest rate. Like if we were to spend or loan 5.7 million dollars for the purpose of fighting wildfires in disadvantaged communities would purchasing a single helicopter for a company that loans out helicopters really be the best way of doing that?

prime interest rate in US is 8.5%. 2% would be losing money on a $5.7 million dollar loan, returns wouldn’t beat inflation or prime interest rate. Unless I’m missing something if apecoin price remains consistent this is an effectively free loan that would not actually yield greater buying power for the DAO. Not that an AIP needs to generate returns but this is a pretty steep allocation of $APE when $APE price is near all-time low before an impending bitcoin halving and ETF approval, and I don’t understand the rewards fully.

I do care about giving back to the communities in need around the world, general charity, environmentalism, etc but if I was brainstorming the most effective thing to do with 5.7 million dollars if I wanted to fight wildfires in vulnerable communities, probably my first thought wouldn’t be loaning a company $5 million on significantly less than the prime interest rate for a single black hawk helicopter painted over with the apecoin logo

It’s the “current Canadian Prime interest rate at the time less 2%,” not a flat 2%.

I thought they meant a 2% APR loan - did I misunderstand that?

The relevant information is stated right here. If the current Canadian prime interest rate is 7.2%, for instance, the loan would be at a rate of 5.2%, as it’s written here.

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Hi @Grimyfrankie ,

As Chris has clarified, the proposal outlines a prime -2%, however, I believe the team is flexible. I’m curious, at what % does a proposal like this become interesting to you?

Cheers.

Honestly if it were just the current prime rate so DAO isn’t actually losing money I think it would be fair and more considerable. However most AIPs aren’t even attempting to generate profit for the DAO in the first place, so I appreciate this direction of an interest bearing loan even though it isn’t the norm.

Also sorry if I was rash I don’t know all the details of this or normal DAO discourse but I am confused about the benefits to the DAO and also the scale of the benefits to the communities vulnerable to wildfires. I definitely see the helping with the wildfires being a real and worthwhile benefit in and of itself but I’m not an environmentalist so I want to better understand if these numbers are fair - basically if it is the best we could do to benefit those wildfires (if thats a cause Apecoin is seeking) with 5.7 million. the fact it is a loan makes it a lot more appealling.

But also market conditions with $APE being so cheap and I speculate possible bull run with bitcoin halving and etf would affect my balance as to whether it’s worth it. Sorry for rant but basically most concerned about opportunity cost and tangible impact

The purpose of our proposal was a starting point. The budget of $5.7m includes ground support equipment and training. We will fund this second Blackhawk ourselves or through traditional lending options but wanted to see if this unique opportunity might be of interest to the APE community. We are open to smaller amounts or entertaining different repayment structures that mutually make sense. Someone has to go first and this was our opening proposal.

But we are not going to overpay to borrow money because there are other options available to us.

And I think there is some misunderstanding about the wrapping on the helicopter. This machine would not be permanently branded ape. Once it is leased to the operator, they would logo the machine into their corporate colours and design. The machine could be wrapped for specific purposes, but not be a full time branded ApeCoin (unless ApeCoin wanted to pay the operator directly)

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Hi @12GAUGE,

The community feedback period for your proposal would be ending in approximately 24 hours.

  • If you’re content with the feedback received, your next steps are to finalize your proposal using the AIP Draft Template.

  • A moderator will reach out to the author to finalize the AIP Draft. Upon receipt of the final Draft, we will review and provide instructions on the next steps.

  • Are you ready to proceed to the next phase or do you wish to extend community discussion for another 7 days?

We look forward to hearing from you.

-@Facilitators

This topic was automatically closed after 7 days. New replies are no longer allowed.