100% agree on this. We can use anyone of the chains which can enable us to launch a our own chain. Such as polygon edge / supernets
2 Likes
They have already reached out (Starkware)
and I have it in my proposal. Love this writeup and couldn’t agree more. Loopring team and IMX have also already reached out and I’ve emailed all 3 (Starkware, Immutable-X, and Loopring) to see if they can assist in any way while I update my proposal.
Loving this community, excited that people are already on board with using rollups on on next project. Also look at L2s using optimized rollups. Both zk and optimized rollups should be looked at for this solution. I will continue to refine my proposal hearing everyone’s opinions and repost soon.
2 Likes
I’ve already reached out to IMX, Zksync from Starkware, and Loopring. Would you be comfortable with reaching out to the Polygon team and bringing in the technicals of implementation? If not I’d be happy to reach out to their team to ask questions of how we could implement to write up in a proposal myself.
I really believe setting up a market on L2 for minting would be incredibly ideal instead of leaving ETH and would love to bring real substance behind our ideas 
Cheers!
3 Likes
I already have reached out to them. Some of the details are here.
Can we do the proposal together. Is there a way we can connect on TG or Twitter ?
1 Like
New to all this. And from the little I understood, sounds pretty impressive. Laymans terms, not taking the coin off the makerts, just outsourcing the printers?
1 Like
This topic was automatically closed after 7 days. New replies are no longer allowed.
Thank you @ASEC for your ideas and the ApeCoin DAO community for the thoughtful discussions. A moderator will get in touch with the author to draft the AIP in the appropriate template. Once the AIP is drafted and meets all the DAO-approved guidelines, the proposal will be posted on Snapshot for live official voting at: Snapshot
Follow the here as further updates will be posted here in the comments. @ASEC please see your messages for the next steps.
2 Likes
Hi ApeCoin DAO Community,
Thank you @ASEC for submitting an updated AIP Draft. We will be in touch soon once our team has reviewed it, and will revert with any questions we may have.
Follow this Topic as further updates will be posted here in the comments.
Kind Regards,
-rabbit
2 Likes
Polygon’s nodes are run by binance. It is not decentralized. It is not a L2. It’s a side chain that is not secured by the L1.
No polygon.
1 Like
@ASEC Thanks for kicking this one off. I’ve got a few recommendations that I would love it if you might consider.
Ultimately this kind of proposal could help the DAO take its time in coming up with a long-term solution for ApeCoin, or at least buy us 3 months. The 3 months bit is because a proposal that directly conflicts with another approved proposal has to wait that period of time. So something like AIP Idea: Otherside as an Avalanche Subnet would have to wait at least 3 more months to resubmit.
One thing I did want to call out specifically was this:
This is untrue. Ethereum moving to proof-of-stake only changes its consensus mechanism (away from proof of work) and does not make any meaningful changes to its execution. Thus both fees and speed will remain unchanged. While other solutions may help out with this later on down the road, The Merge will not change execution from the status quo.
Now…here are some explicit suggestions:
Title (suggestion):
Perhaps consider updating the title to “Keep ApeCoin within the Ethereum ecosystem”. This would help by not specifically cutting out potential Ethereum rollup scaling solutions (specifically L2’s that use Ethereum’s security model, not a side-chain).
Abstract (suggestion):
Yuga Labs stated in a tweet that they believed ApeCoin needed to move to its own chain in order to scale. We the ApeCoin DAO believe that, at least for the time being, ApeCoin should remain within the Ethereum ecosystem, and not migrate elsewhere to an L1 chain or sidechain not secured by Ethereum.
Motivation (suggestion):
Migrating to a different chain is a costly, risky, and complex endeavor with many moving parts that may, if not thoughtfully considered, result in catastrophic loss, or at worst, abandonment by Yuga Labs and other entities that would otherwise meaningfully to ApeCoin.
Rationale suggestion (suggestion):
- While Yuga Labs expressed a desire to move away from Ethereum after the Otherside Deeds mint resulted in a big spike in gas costs, we the ApeCoin DAO believe that such a decision is currently too complex and costly to make.
- By migrating ApeCoin away from Ethereum, it would then find its home on a different chain than the original assets that inspired it—Yuga Labs’ own NFTs
- This may have unintended downstream effects, such as Yuga Labs no longer supporting or using ApeCoin in association with its NFTs like Bored Apes, Mutant Apes, or Otherside Deeds
- While gas costs and transaction speeds may be a concern for some with Ethereum, especially when considering a desire to grow the ApeCoin ecosystem, moving it away from the Ethereum ecosystem is neither necessary, but potentially detrimental to ApeCoin holders, and the interests of the DAO.
- Ethereum and its respective L2’s remain the largest collected ecosystem of NFT projects, builders, liquidity, and users. Moving ApeCoin away from this ecosystem could be detrimental to its health and the DAO’s goals of growing the ecosystem.
- Many Layer 2 solutions that are secured by Ethereum, and exhibit meaningful improvement over fees and speed, already exist and could potentially be explored in a future AIP. These solutions include optimistic rollups such as Arbitrum and Optimism, or zk-Rollups such as StarkNet, zkSync, and Polygon Hermez.
- Note L2 rollups differ from sidechains such as Polygon or alt-L1’s such as Avalanche in that they rely on their own security, as opposed to Ethereum’s consensus.
- There are few examples of migrating an ERC-20 and its attached ecosystem successfully to another chain, and there may be many risks of loss along the way.
- Ethereum’s security remains second-to-none
- By delaying moving to any ecosystem other than Ethereum, we provide ApeCoin and the DAO with the greatest chance of making the right decision that will work best for all interested parties
Specifications (suggestion):
ApeCoin MUST remain within Ethereum, or within an L2 scaling solution that is secured by the Ethereum blockchain. While this proposal makes no such recommendation for ApeCoin other than remaining on Ethereum, it does not preclude subsequent AIPs from suggesting a move to an L2 scaling solution secured by Ethereum.
Steps to implement (suggestion):
There are no additional steps associated with this AIP.
Timeline (suggestion):
The start date would be immediate, with any competing AIPs withheld until after a period of 3 months following the acceptance of this AIP.
Overall Cost (suggestion):
There is no cost associated with this AIP.
6 Likes
Hi ApeCoin DAO Community,
@ASEC has submitted an updated AIP Draft and it is currently in our team’s review.
Follow this topic as further updates will be posted here in the comments.
Kind regards,
moonkt
3 Likes
Thank you for co-authoring the proposal. You are helping the community a lot!
3 Likes
+1 Ape should remain in the Eth ecosystem. I’d like to see any scaling solution be OPT-IN personally, assuming such a thing is technically possible. Ape is doing very well for itself and has a bright future once the Otherside economy opens up. Let’s not shoot ourselves in the foot with a drastic move. Incremental change is key imo.
4 Likes
I am not a blockchain guy but I heard good things about an Ethereum Layer 2 solution called Truebit Protocol. First time posting here and I am not sure if I can put their address here
Here is a quote from the site:
While smart contracts can perform small computations correctly, large computation tasks pose security risks for blockchains. Truebit counteracts this shortcoming via a trustless, retrofitting oracle which correctly performs computational tasks. Any smart contract can issue a computation task to this oracle in the form of WebAssembly bytecode, while anonymous “miners” receive rewards for correctly solving the task.
The oracle’s protocol guarantees correctness in two layers: a unanimous consensus layer where anyone can object to faulty solutions, and an on-chain mechanism which incentivizes participation and ensures fair remuneration. These components formally manifest themselves through a combination of novel, off-chain architecture and on-chain smart contracts.
Rather than relying on external, cryptographic proofs of correctness, Truebit leverages game theoretic principles to effectively increase the on-chain computation power of existing networks.
1 Like
Hi ApeCoin DAO Community,
This proposal is live for vote today at 9PM ET at Snapshot. The voting period closes next Wednesday at 9PM ET.
The AIP implementation is administered by the Ape Foundation. Implementation may be immaterially or materially altered to optimise for security, usability, to protect APE holders, and otherwise to effect the intent of the AIP. Any material deviations from an AIP, as initially approved, will be disclosed to the APE holder community.
-rabbit
2 Likes
Hi ApeCoin DAO Community,
The voting has closed for this proposal and it has been accepted. This proposal is also considered fully implemented and the conflict period ends September 8, 2022.
Thank you to @ASEC for the idea, and to the community for voicing their thoughts and voting!
Follow this proposal under the AIP Transparency and Execution Category. A new post has been created here, Implementation Update | AIP-41: Keep ApeCoin within the Ethereum ecosystem - Process, and further updates will be posted.
-rabbit
3 Likes