AIP Idea: Otherside as an Avalanche Subnet

VonnDiesel do you know anything about avalanche? It is the most decentralized platform out there. A subnet is basically an L1 in terms of security and tokenomics. Except it doesn’t pay rent to ETH, and it is not built in a silo. The infrastructure around a custom L2 is not something Yuga + ApeDAO can realistically excel at building anyway. It’s a whole enterprise, and the otherside is priority.

$APE can’t afford to share an shoddy L2 with other projects. It needs a dedicated state of the art chain of its own that is designed to scale and easy to develop. This is what subnets are here for, and they are incredibly fast, cheap, and secure


You are totally wrong…

They can tap directly to Immutable with help of starkware and make it happen, better, cheapper and more secure.
A new L1 is a dumb idea, and a subnet is that… just a dumb idea.

It’s not just about, “Paying Ethereum’s rent” it’s also composability, liquidity and security.
I won’t migrate my liquidity to a subnet.


monomesa with all due respect, do you have any experience engineering software? or working on distributed systems?

I have spent my career building software and studying the advancements in crypto since '13. People do not yet understand what subnets are about to do. They are brand new. I’ll give you that.

But when you throw out words like composability and security, that I’m afraid the argument does not make sense here. Ava Labs is lead by one of the most important engineers in the space behind Vitalik, and their novel consensus mechanism is the first such since Satoshi’s. The average market participant has no idea what subnets are designed for. And they’re literally just getting started finally. Open your mind up.


I do prefer the L2 route.
This is composability, security and tap to better liquidity, what Immutable is working on.


While most every contributor of ApeCoin DAO is interested in supporting Otherside’s needed infastructure, it’s hard to make any decisions before we know what they need. If the team or a representative of Yuga was here to chime in, it would certainly help us to understand better.

The first step of Avalanche should be collaborate with Yuga Labs, and as this idea reads, that hasn’t happened yet. If the teams were already working together, this would be easier decision to make.


Honestly think we have more to lose leaving eth than we have to gain exploring options off of it and it’s L2s. Rather, for all value that apecoin and the ecosystem around can give, I dont see remotely an appropriate value that avalanche can give back to make it worth the sacrifice.


Sure. Use an ETH L2 and pay gas fees in ETH or the L2 token. And pay rent back to ETH to settle.

Or, use a subnet and pay gas fees in $APE. Get funded by Ava Labs to $APE and enable rapid scaling of in-game transactions. All tx fees in $APE with instant finality. That is value.

Which is better for $APE? Which is a better game experience in the Otherside?

EDIT: I know we don’t decide what happen in the Otherside. But it’s our job to choose infrastructure that allows $APE to be used at scale in the first place


First, the DAO has nothing to do with the Otherside. That’s a Yuga project and it’s not within the purview of this DAO to decide what technology they do or do not use for that.

Second, I would much rather see ApeCoin exploring Optimistic or ZK Roll-ups on Ethereum than migrating to another chain entirely.


Absolutely, I don’t see the reason for us to stay in ETH and pay rent back to ETH.

And its a great revenue source for $APE to fund itself and the ecosystem if we were to pay $APE for gas.


Who are the “select members of ApeCoin community” and why do they get airdrops of VIP tickets?

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The proposal will kill the project.


Have you looked into Polygon Supernets ( Looks like a good fit .

Why do you think Avalanche is better fit than Polygon Supernets? I understand Supernets bringing all the advantages if not more and acts as Ethereum L2 for keeping Ethereum security and community ethos intact.

I agree with @vonDiesel! Supernets seems to be a better bet given it provides Ethereum security , community ethos and all other advantages being L2.

What this has to do with ApeCoin tho? It is already bridgable to any L1/L2 and people will choose whatever layer they want to use with ApeCoin.
If Avalanche would want to win ApeCoins, there are ways to attract liquidity.


Avalanche indeed has the most reliable and scalable proven chain! We need this kind of structure for our future expansion.


I vote NO for this proposal, staying ETH and wait for layer2 or rollup, AB, OP, ZKs, NO EVM COPYCAT CHAINS.


Supernets are 1) not in existence yet and 2) literally an attempted copy of subnets but without any of the core innovations

ETH L2s are 1) inefficient and 2) costly because they force you to pay rent back to ETH. If $APE holders want $APE to moon, it should have its own chain where smart contract fees are paid in $APE. If you want ETH to moon slightly faster than otherwise, then pay fees in ETH on an L2. $APE will suffer.

Your choice.

All the people calling AVAX a copycat chain likely have 0 software engineering experience. They repeat baseless arguments without proof. If you miss AVAX, you’re making the same mistake as BTC maxis who missed ETH in '18-21

TLDR; What is best for $APE? What is best for $ETH? What are you prioritizing and why?

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Supernets non-existent ? I wish you present facts and not biased opinions.

Okay, I thought there we 0 live supernets since they were announced so recently. Am I wrong? It doesn’t change the fact matic relies on a 5 of 8 multisig that cold rug at any moment. It is not a stable foundation for a top chain until that is fixed.

Oh and it pays rent back to ETH. It’s good for ETH whales though. All ETH L2s are paying rent back to ETH via hacky custom designs.

It makes 0 sense economically and 0 sense technically for ApeChain to pay rent to $ETH.