AIP-297: An NFT Community Vault Operating as an ApeCoin Sister DAO with a Goal to Advance the Mission and Influence of ApeCoin

yatsiu · July 12, 2023, 11:22pm

Summary:

An idea for an Apecoin operated NFT Community Vault operating as an sub-DAO with a goal to advance the mission and influence of ApeCoin.

This proposal aims to secure an initial budget of 750,000 APE (this can be flexible depending on the initial NFT purchase idea) from the DAO treasury to purchase various non-fungible tokens (NFTs) from culturally significant and influential collections in the web3 ecosystem. The acquired NFTs will be held in a community-run vault with clear reporting and transparency, provided by the Committee with key decisions being made by Apecoin holders through a vote (eg. via snapshot). The community-run vault will serve as a catalyst for introducing ApeCoin as the representative token of web3 culture within other web3 NFT culture ecosystems, and seeks to foster collaboration, innovation, and cross-pollination between ApeCoin and other web3 & NFT communities.

It will operate as a sub-DAO of ApeCoin meaning that key decisions run by this vault will be operated by community votes using APE. NFT purchases (and disposals) for instance could then be made by community votes.

This AIP is co-authored by Yat Siu, Chairman of Animoca Brands and former ApeCoin DAO Special Council Member, and Tyler Durden, Mocaverse Lead and Head of Projects at Animoca Brands, with obvious intention to grow ApeCoin influence in web3 and grow web3 as a whole.

Draft Proposal:

Purpose: The purpose of this proposal is to grow the influence of ApeCoin across the web3 ecosystem and catalyze collaboration amongst web3 projects and by establishing a community-run vault to hold a diverse collection of NFTs that ultimately would be controlled by Apecoin holders. These NFTs will represent artistic, cultural, and technological expressions within other decentralized communities. The acquisition of the NFTs as the first step could potentially be followed by $APE to power the adoption of the acquired NFT IP in later phases, and further solidify ApeCoin’s position as representative token of web3 culture
Budget Allocation: We propose allocating an initial budget of 750,000 ApeCoin from the DAO treasury for acquiring NFTs. The budget will be utilized to 1) (500,000 $APE) purchase NFTs from various platforms and projects that align with the vision and values of ApeCoin, encompassing art, music, virtual worlds, gaming, and other web3 domains 2) a buffer of an additional 250,000 $APE for additional NFT purchases that may be needed and development of any related services to assist in maintaining the VAULT initially. As part of this a mini-constitution as to how the VAULT would be operated would also be drawn up.
Committee: A dedicated community-led committee will be formed to oversee the selection and acquisition process, and responsible for operations such as reporting and communication. The committee will comprise members with expertise and knowledge in the web3 ecosystem, NFTs, and decentralized communities. The committee will ensure transparency, inclusivity, and a fair evaluation of potential NFT purchases, considering factors such as ApeCoin ecosystem collaboration, artistic merit, cultural relevance, technical innovation, and alignment with the web3 culture. Animoca Brands will serve as the starting committee for the first 6-month term, thereafter it is proposed that there be an election to vote in new committee members to run this VAULT. Voting for this new committee will be done exclusively with Apecoin.
NFT Curation and Display: The acquired NFTs will be stored securely in the community-run vault. The vault will be designed to provide public access, allowing ApeCoin community members and visitors to explore, appreciate, and engage with the collected NFTs. To prioritize security and protect the community’s interest, we would propose any actions involving the purchase and transfer of NFTs to leverage multi-signature features, managed by the Committee.
Community Engagement and Collaboration: The establishment of the community vault will facilitate collaborations and partnerships between ApeCoin and other web3 projects. ApeCoin holders, artists, developers, and enthusiasts will have opportunities to collaborate with and leverage the IP of the acquired NFTs to create interactive experiences, virtual events, competitions, and exhibitions. The expected audiences of these initiatives would be community members of ApeCoin and the NFT collections we acquired from, as well as broader web3 user bases with a keen interest in these projects. These engagements will promote the growth of ApeCoin’s ecosystem and encourage the adoption of ApeCoin as a key web3 culture token.
Reporting and Accountability: The community-led committee will regularly report on the acquisition process, NFT selection, and activities related to the community vault. Updates will be provided through transparent channels, including the ApeCoin website, and other relevant mediums. Financial transparency and accountability will also be ensured by sharing detailed records of NFT purchases, associated costs, and any collaborations or partnerships formed. Multi-signature wallet address(es) and on-chain data will also be shared for transparency on the aforementioned items, where applicable.
Evaluation and Iteration: The community vault’s impact on promoting ApeCoin as a key web3 culture token will be periodically evaluated. Feedback from the ApeCoin community, the projects we acquire from, and the wider web3 ecosystem will be actively sought and considered for future iterations and improvements surrounding but not limited to the vault’s operations and curation strategy. This proposal addresses the first stages of this community-run initiative, with the hope that there will be further NFT acquisitions and future cross-community building to scale this vault’s positive impacts on the web3 space.
Potential Extension not part of the current budget: NFTs in the vault could be rentable in the future to community members for a fee or some joint community-voted/run agreement. In later phases, $APE could also be used to fund IP adoption of the rented NFTs. An expansion on this idea could mean that NFTs in the vault could be rented to other Apecoin holder to participate in other blockchain games. They may not be able to afford the NFTs necessary to play in some of these games but by being a part of the Apecoin community have an opportunity to use these assets as a participant.

Proposed First Acquisitions of NFTs

In order of priority and subject to approval, the first purchases proposed are:

Bored Ape Yacht Club: Floor Apes x10
Mutant Ape Yacht Club: Floor Mutants x10
Bored Ape Kennel Club: Floor Dogs x10
Mocaverse: Floor Mocas x10
Cool Cats: Floor Cats x10
World of Women: Floor NFTs x10
Pudgy Penguins: Floor Penguins x10
KODA’s: Floor KODA’s x10

Approximate calculations may also be found in this spreadsheet:

Calculations - ApeCoin NFT Acquisition Proposal (11 July)

Conclusion:

The acquisition of NFTs for the community vault, funded by a budget of 750,000 APE , will in our opinion contribute significantly to positioning ApeCoin as a significant web3 culture token across the NFT ecosystem. By showcasing a diverse collection of NFTs from other web3 ecosystems, this vault will foster cross-community collaboration, inspire creativity, demonstrate support to diverse NFT communities, and attract new participants to the ApeCoin ecosystem. This proposal represents an opportunity to leverage the power of NFTs to amplify ApeCoin’s presence beyond its traditional space. This serves as an experiment and also an important step to grow ApeCoin influence and empowerment in the web3 ecosystem.

If this approach becomes successful we may propose a larger budget for more NFT acquisitions in the future.

Final AIP Draft

Proposal Name: An NFT Community Vault Operating as an ApeCoin Sister DAO with a Goal to Advance the Mission and Influence of ApeCoin

Proposal Category: Ecosystem Fund Allocation

Abstract | Two or three sentences that summarize the proposal.

The objective of this proposal is to position ApeCoin as the web3 culture token to power the broader web3 ecosystem. This proposal aims to secure 750,000 APE to acquire NFTs which represent various cultures and also with a certain level of influence in web3. The acquired NFTs will be managed via a community-governed vault, voted by the sister DAO members, and open for $APE holders to utilize the IP with potential grants in $APE in the near future. The initial deployment of $APE for NFT acquisition will be operated and decided by the Committee.

Author Description (mandatory if the AIP is requesting funds) | A brief background of yourself

This AIP is co-authored by Yat Siu, Chairman of Animoca Brands and former ApeCoin DAO Special Council Member, and Tyler Durden, Mocaverse Lead and Head of Projects at Animoca Brands. The intention behind this proposal is to grow ApeCoin influence in web3 and grow web3 as a whole.

Team Description (mandatory if the AIP is requesting funds) | A brief background of your team involved, if any

Animoca Brands is a global leader in gamification and blockchain with a large portfolio of over 450 investments, and with the mission to advance digital property rights and contribute to building the open metaverse. The company and its various subsidiaries develop and publish blockchain games, traditional games, and other products, many of which are based on popular global brands including Disney, WWE, Power Rangers, MotoGP™, Formula E, and Snoop Dogg.

This proposal suggests having Animoca Brands to act as the Committee for the first 6 months, and the Committee for the next term shall be voted and elected by the broader ApeCoin holders.

Committee shall shortlist various NFTs that the vault will purchase. These NFTs shall be selected from an NFT marketplace, such as OpenSea. This community-led committee will be formed to oversee the selection and acquisition process, and responsible for operations such as wallet operations, reporting and communication.

The committee will comprise members with expertise and knowledge in the web3 ecosystem, NFTs, and decentralized communities. The Committee will ensure transparency, inclusivity, and a fair evaluation of potential NFT purchases, considering factors such as ApeCoin ecosystem collaboration, artistic merit, cultural relevance, technical innovation, and alignment with the web3 culture.

Animoca Brands will serve as the starting committee for the first 6-month term, thereafter it is proposed that there be an election to vote in new committee members to run this vault. Voting for this new Committee will be done exclusively with ApeCoin.

Motivation | A statement on why the APE Community should implement the proposal.

This proposal aims to grow the influence of ApeCoin across the web3 ecosystem and catalyze collaboration amongst web3 projects via a community-run and community-governed vault holding a diverse collection of non-fungible tokens (NFTs).

This will be the beginning of where ApeCoin can both power and be adopted for any creation using a diversity of influential web3 IPs owned by the community-governed vault. For instance, the acquired Pudgy Penguin NFT can be rented to an $APE holder requesting for a grant in $APE to create a sneaker brand which only accepts $APE as payment.

Majority of the people until today still misunderstand that we need a BAYC to participate in ApeCoin DAO. This will set an example to the entire web3 community that ApeCoin can also apply to many other projects. Owned by community, built by and for community, adopted by community. This is not only a proposal to own NFTs in a vault, but also to empower creation and adoption with $APE.

Rationale | An explanation of how the proposal aligns with the APE Community’s mission and guiding values.

This proposal aligns with the ApeCoin Community’s mission as a representative token of web3 culture across different web3 communities, as well as Transparency by having the NFTs managed by the community-governed vault. The impact of the acquired NFTs shall also scale by renting the NFTs to multiple ApeCoin DAO members.

One of the objectives of ApeCoin as stated on apecoin.com states, “ApeCoin is a tool for third-party developers to participate in the ecosystem by incorporating APE into services, games, and other projects.” In this proposal, ApeCoin is a tool to be used to acquire NFT hence the right to use the IP, distribute the rights for ApeCoin holders to use, and adopt ApeCoin as a tool for “… third-party developers to participate in the ecosystem by incorporating APE into services, games, and other projects.”

Acquisition of the NFTs is only the first stage as stated in this proposal, which enables further follow-on proposals voted via the sister DAO, such as: NFT rental, $APE grant for product building.

These steps will serve to further elevate ApeCoin’s widespread influence and financial adoption across web3 culture.

Benefit to ApeCoin Ecosystem | Explain how your proposal will benefit the ApeCoin ecosystem. If your AIP is requesting funding, explain in detail the benefit in relation to the amount of funding that you are requesting.

Every step of our proposed approach will prioritize the usage and adoption of $APE

Our 5-step approach to execute this proposal are as follows:

Purchase the selected NFTs using the grant in $APE
ApeCoin holders owning the governance rights of the usage or moblization of the acquired NFTs (voting through a sister DAO)
(Sister DAO Process) ApeCoin DAO will lease these NFT IPs to $APE holders / proposers
(ApeCoin DAO or Sister DAO Process) Use $APE to fund the development of these IP utilizations
(ApeCoin DAO or Sister DAO Process) Adopt $APE in these products

$APE will be the token that powers the operations and execution of every stage, all the way from initial NFT acquisition to the development of products leveraging these NFT IPs. This will create vital benefits for the ApeCoin ecosystem because it will lead to wider adoption and usage of $APE beyond its current applications.

Sister DAO to be governed by $APE holders with the following decision making:

Whether specific NFT IPs should be rented to a specific proposer based on the suggested products or projects
$APE funding for development of the suggested products or projects using the vault’s NFT IPs
Which NFT collections to buy / sell from in the vault’s future NFT acquisitions after the initial acquisition based on this proposal

This sister DAO would operate outside of the main ApeCoin DAO, but still consist of the same membership base with the only requirement being to own 1 $APE.

Supercharge IP utilization within and beyond the APE ecosystem

This community-run vault will acquire, hold, and empower utilizing a number of NFTs from notable NFT collections across the web3 landscape. Benefits:
- The first application of the acquired NFT IP to create products / services will set the first example of receiving $APE support to power the broader web3 ecosystem and other projects
- The NFTs acquired via the vault can be used by the ApeCoin community without having to deploy capital and own the NFTs themselves, however able to utilize the IP to the holders’ preference of projects
- Open cross-community dialogue and supercharge the educational process of ApeCoin DAO involvement

One of the many benefits of this vault’s sister DAO is its low-barrier entry of owning at least 1 APE to have governance and usage rights in this vault.

Key Terms (optional) | Definitions of any terms within the proposal that are unique to the proposal, new to the APE Community, and/or industry-specific.

Committee

In the context of this proposal, the Committee would be the group of individuals who oversee the NFT selection and acquisition process. An initial 6-month term will be served by Animoca Brands, and subsequent Committee members will be elected by the APE community.

Community-run vault

This will be a crypto vault that acquires and holds NFTs from various NFT collections across web3. These NFTs shall be acquired and managed via the vault via multi-signature features. The usage of the NFT IPs contained in this vault shall be voted on and governed by the APE community via the sister DAO. $APE granted from the ApeCoin DAO and any other fungible tokens shall also be managed following the same principle.

Specifications | A detailed breakdown of the platforms and technologies that will be used.

NFT Curation and Display

The acquired NFTs will be stored securely in the community-run vault. The acquired NFTs will be displayed via a web page in a pleasant manner, allowing ApeCoin community members and visitors to explore and appreciate the collected NFTs.

Sister DAO Governance

A new Snapshot space will be set up for the sister DAO. Through this Snapshot space, $APE holders would be able to propose and vote on a number of matters relating to the acquisition and usage of the NFT IPs.

Reporting and Accountability

The community-led committee will report by batch on the acquisition process and management of funds on a weekly basis, such as NFT selection and activities related to the community-governed vault. Updates will be provided through transparent channels. Financial transparency and accountability will also be ensured by sharing detailed records (e.g. Etherscan) of NFT purchases, associated costs, and any collaborations or partnerships formed. Multi-signature wallet address(es) and on-chain data will also be shared for transparency on the aforementioned items, where applicable.

Steps to Implement | The steps to implement the proposal, including associated costs, manpower, and other resources for each step where applicable.

The steps to implement including:

Set up multi-signature wallet
Receive grant in $APE from ApeCoin DAO
Set up Snapshot space for the sister DAO for proposals and voting
(Ongoing) Deploy $APE grant to acquire the proposed NFTs
(Ongoing) Report on vault and multi-signature wallet weekly
Submit first governance proposal via the sister DAO for voting to facilitate NFT rental and adoption for product creation
Launch web page to display the acquired NFTs in the vault

Specifically for Step 4, below is the proposed list of NFTs to be acquired by the community-governed vault in this proposal:

Bored Ape Yacht Club: Floor Apes x 8
Mutant Ape Yacht Club: Floor Mutants x 12
Bored Ape Kennel Club: Floor Dogs x 15
Mocaverse: Floor Mocas x 15
Cool Cats: Floor Cats x 15
World of Women: Floor NFTs x 15
Pudgy Penguins: Floor Penguins x 12
KODA’s: Floor KODA’s x12
Otherdeed: Floor Otherside x 15
Sandbox: Floor Sandbox Land x 20

Approximate calculations may also be found in this table:

Timeline | Relevant timing details, including but not limited to start date, milestones, and completion dates.

Step 1 (7 days from proposal passed): Set up multi-signature wallet

Step 2 (subject to operations): Receive grant in $APE from ApeCoin DAO

Step 3 (7 days from Step 1): Set up Snapshot space for the sister DAO for proposals and voting

Step 4 (full deployment of grant for purchase in 90 days from Step 2): (Ongoing) Deploy $APE grant to acquire the proposed NFTs ApeCoin DAO will licenses these NFT IPs to APE holders / proposers (target to complete purchase within 90 days from proposal passed)

Step 5: (Ongoing) Report on vault and multi-signature wallet weeklyUse APE to fund the development of these IP utilizations

Step 6 (30 days from Step 4): Submit first governance proposal via the sister DAO for voting to facilitate NFT rental and adoption for product creationAdopt APE in these products

Step 7 (60 days from Step 4): Launch web page to display the acquired NFTs in the vault

Overall Cost | The total cost to implement the proposal.

We propose allocating an initial budget of 750,000 ApeCoin from the DAO treasury for acquiring NFTs. The budget will be utilized as such:

500,000 $APE: To purchase NFTs from various platforms and projects that align with the vision and values of ApeCoin, encompassing art, music, virtual worlds, gaming, and other web3 domains
250,000 $APE: As a buffer for additional NFT purchases that may be needed and development of any related services to assist in initial vault maintenance

justzb · July 13, 2023, 5:20am

Pretty interesting idea and I like how the usage is being positioned to showcase how $APE can be utilitze and foster interoperability with other NFT Collections and within the Web3 Ecosystem. If this works smoothly and well $APE will be the leading culture token within WEB3 . The amount requested is pretty reasonable too with budget able to spread across few collections.

Sasha · July 13, 2023, 6:33am

Hi Yat,

Could you elaborate on how buying a few assets actually helps “introduce ApeCoin as the representative token of web3 culture within other web3 NFT culture ecosystems”? As in, many of us own nfts from other collections and it doesn’t help $ape one bit. What exact difference do you expect the storage of these NFTs in a DAO-held wallet would make compared to, say, the storage of same NFTs in an ApeCoin whale’s wallet?
The top 3 purchases proposed here are all Yuga assets (10 apes + 10 mutants + 10 dogs) and would use up all of the budget (10x36 + 10x7 + 10x4.8 = 480 eth = $960K, and 500K APE which you suggest to be used for purchases = $950K at 1.92 $APE price). How does buying these specific 30 assets help $ape in any way when $ape is already the token of choice for Yuga ecosystem?

So many other questions, but these are the key ones. Machi pumps and dumps $1.5mil on a slow day and it has no effect on ApeCoin, so I’m just trying to understand how buying $1.5m of assets can have any impact on ApeCoin, or why we the DAO needs to own (a small amount of) assets in order to foster collaboration with other communities, or how Cool Cats would suddenly feel motivated to implement $ape b/c this DAO owns 10 cats.

Thank you, sir, big fan

MisterHype · July 13, 2023, 9:05am

Hi @yatsiu,

Happy to see you take the lead in the DAO from different angle. Thank you for presenting this AIP, I have a couple of questions regarding the operational structure and decision-making process:

Why is the committee initially operated by Animoca Brands instead of conducting elections from the beginning? While Animoca Brands has valuable expertise, wouldn’t it be more democratic and transparent to involve the ApeCoin community in the committee formation and decision-making process from the start (even by secure one seat to Animoca Brands, if it’s necessary)?
How can we implement a methodology for investment decisions within the AIP? It would be beneficial to have a clear framework or criteria for evaluating potential NFT purchases, taking into account factors such as long-term value, alignment with ApeCoin’s vision, and potential collaborations with other web3 projects.

Suggestion: I suggest incorporating an investment methodology within the AIP, specifying criteria for evaluating NFT purchases, by categories.

How do we ensure that the NFT acquisitions in the vault truly benefit the ApeCoin DAO and its community, we just voted in favor to this criteria (AIP-262)?

-Mr. Hype

amanbehumble · July 13, 2023, 9:09am

Interesting idea. As a NFT degen who actively engagement in different NFT community, we always see blue-chip founders buy and support other projects. I can understand some of the holders might think there are no instant effect on the move. However, if we have a good committee that can leverage the purchase from our Vault to do certain outreach and joint-community activation , certain connections can be made while onboarding more active members from other NFT community to $APE community.

In terms of the potential extension part, making the Vault rentable will definitely increase APE utility. The NFT space is encouraging the holder to leverage the IP of their NFT to build something.
“Made by Apes” from yuga, "de[licnese] from delabs, “overpass” from Pudgy Penguins are coming soon to allow and help users to build their brand and monetize from their IP. It may create opportunity for $APE holder rent the NFT that they can not afford in our Valut while request $APE grant to build solid and cool stuff within $APE ecosystem.

Fully support the ultimate vision to treat $APE as a web3 native token for all NFT project instead of just limited to BAYC IP.

Sasha · July 13, 2023, 9:46am

Aman, welcome!

This is great. And, it is already being done by many owning assets. Do you feel that Animoca, one of the most-connected entities in the entire web3 space, needs to show 10 cool cats in a wallet in order to collaborate with Cool Cats, with whom they’re already working on a video game and whose assets they already own? Or perhaps that Cool Cats would say no to such collaboration unless this DAO holds a few cats? It feels that any collaboration would be judged on its merit, not wallet content. I.e. CCs won’t think, “This collab isn’t beneficial to us, but I see you own 10 cats, so let’s do it!” This is the part that I feel needs clarification with perhaps specific examples of types of collabs and their expected impact.

The DAO cannot make any profit currently. This might change; it might not. When it does change, this definitely becomes a consideration then as you’re saying. Until then, we’d be voting on pure speculation in this specific regard.

Moonlyght · July 13, 2023, 9:52am

I would entertain the idea if Limit Break NFTs would be considered among the selected projects, as ApeCoin aims to be at the centre of Gaming aswell, Limit Break & DigiDaigaku seem like an obvious choice given the case.

You look forward to establish relationships with other projects yet all of the above are part of the Yuga community already in one way or the other. Let’s expand to gaming.

Evil · July 13, 2023, 10:04am

Interesting take indeed and really amazing to see this coming from @yatsiu himself. Seriously love when actual head of major brands come in and interact with people.
Adding to the above AIP, this isnt the first time I’ve seen a DAO putting aside a budget to buy NFTs, specially from major collections in order to “expand DAO assets”.
My first time witnessing this was $whale DAO, where WhaleShark used to go about and buy NFTs with 1/1s and go on a buying spree, one platform at a time; Makersplace, SuperRare, Nifty Gateway and more. Buying spree was enough of an advertisement for artist and platforms to start talking about $whale, many even buying it to be a part of DAO and enjoy the new community. Thats one of the reason why Whale Community expanded and flourished beautifully. All bought 1/1s used to be transferred to Whale Vault and monthly reports done by appointed members, like % increased in value and more.
This however lost momentum because it gives a false sense of hope to collections, resulting in pump and dump + artist who want to sell their 1/1. $whale DAO put millions in NFTs and its still strong, even more millions in NBA TopShot but $whale price still came down drastically due to all different factors.
Second one was Bull Council where I served in a project called "Bulls On The Block " along with @bigbull . We did something similar to this but at a way lower level and ETH, buying GHSXT, WOW and few others, even collaborating with female artist in order to empower the female artist, but it didnt worked as intend. There are many other projects that created community funds and buy collections but that does not create a long lasting impact.

Thanks,
Evil

SmartAPE · July 13, 2023, 2:07pm

I have the same questions. In fact, I don’t see how this is that much different from this suggestion of aquiring NFTs - for a museum. By general consensus, that one was just plain awful.

Here’s a long-winded synopsis that’s going to run around the race track at least once before getting to the point. I like to be thorough, so please bear with me…

@yatsiu You recently said this in a recent interview about Animoca being still bullish on blockchain games.

"They’re built by people who know how to make games whereas maybe three years ago, a lot of games came out built by excited blockchain guys, but who knew very little about what it takes to make a game,”

There are currently only about 127K $Ape holders. That’s it.

This Ape bubble isn’t getting larger. In fact, according to mapped trends, the hodlers count literally hasn’t grown by more than a decimal point (3 sig places) since the Mar 2022 launch. And, from that initial value of @ $7.26, it’s currently trading at $1.87.

This idea isn’t a dynamic one that’s going to spurt interest, let alone growth. We might as well spend $1.5m on a marketing blitz because then, at the very least, we’d get more eyeballs looking at the APE ecosystem. And yes, someone already had an idea for specifically that - and the reception wasn’t that great. Better yet, we could throw $1.5m worth of advertising into any game and still not yield the desired results - because that’s how marketing works.

Having NFTs in a vault isn’t going to yield any tangible results outside of lining the pockets of the owners with money from the DAO. How does that help us - exactly?

Yuga, with all its might and funding, hasn’t even cracked outside the APE bubble of 127K, despite their best efforts and across two games. And those are dynamic engagements that get written about far and wide, and with much publicity, fanfare and the occassional derision.

I have been doing this for a very - very - long time; probably (intro) a lot longer than anyone in this DAO. As such, in my opinion, dynamic engagement is the only way to do this. Not the static engagement model akin to putting up posters in a subway station - which is what this idea appears to be.

Dynamic engagement means one thing, and one thing only. GAMES. There’s seemingly no other practical way forward. And if the falling APE price and ecosysten are any indication, unless a rapid change in direction is made - before it’s too late - we’re heading for $0. Nobody wants to hear this, let alone speak up in the wind against the herd, but this is what it is.

The problem is that games - good ones, that is - take a long time to make, and cost a LOT of money. And the risk of failure is still there. In the last tracked metrics, less than 5% of games will actually get completed. And of the ones that do make it into production and sales, less than 20% will ever turn a profit, let alone recoup costs. If you ran a transposed track against those metrics (I used AI for this), you will see that there is a direct correlation to the rapidly crashing NFT ecosystem. Most have hit the floor and gone negative.

There isn’t a single game dev that is running metrics for a game to sell 127K units to turn a profit. Yet, there’s that one NFT person looking to buy and sell - quickly - because the only way (staking is just as dead - go look) the churn is now the practical thesis.

So, investing money into NFTs that people can go “look at and feel good about” is going to be as ineffective as putting up posters in a subway station where you actually have NO way of tracking the effectiveness of that campaign. Instead, you’re just spending ad money because you happen to have a budget for it.

We need to promote games. We need to find [experienced] builders to make games, or incentivise them to support APE in their games (Web2 & Web3). We need to incentivize those builders to make games that use APE. And in doing so, it can be mandated that such DAO funded games - just like we do with licensed IP in gamedev - should promote the APE logo prominently (e.g. in startup screens, marketing materials) etc. And if the game supports ads, then it should also have spots for prominently promoting APE. And it should most definitely offer $APE as an exclusive token alongside fiat currency.

Since the advent of the Internet as we know it, games have always been at the forefront of most emerging consumable media. It’s why audio and video card manufactures, console makers etc all promote and build businesses around games. It’s why VC and and chains spent the last 3+ years giving out micro-investments, grants etc to any blockchain team who claimed they could make a game. Then didn’t. The end result? A flood of badly made, rug pull, cash grabs. Here we are.

From what I have seen of this DAO - long before officially joining and putting my name into it - nobody wants to ack the realities that even the most intrinsic of ideas that would further the culture, fail in AIP. Too many cooks and all that. From my research, it appears to me that this is because nobody wants to buck the trend, say the quiet part out loud - let alone spend money that’s going to affect the floor price of their $Ape holdings - even as the whole thing continues to decline and crash straight through the floor.

To that end, ideas like this are for another time when there’s more stability - and time. We don’t have the luxury of time. And that’s specifically why I believe that we should wait for the Metaverse Working Group to take form - eventually, and hopefully in this decade. And then, that group (which I hope to be in) will determine the direction that we need to take in actively promoting APE in a dynamic way by curating experienced builders (outside of the 127K bubble) who can help build beyond the 127K bubble. And no, we’re never - ever - going to achieve that in a glorified Metaverse chat room. Ever.

Thanks for reading.

yatsiu · July 13, 2023, 6:25pm

The principle idea behind the vault is to give the community a sense of ownership of NFT assets. You could say that BAYC holders (by virtue of the initial drop) also became ape holders, but how do ape holders also become BAYC holders? Its not feasible to have each ape holder also have an NFT.

Having governance over BAYC NFTs is the first step in giving them a certain sense of ownership. While the rental piece is not defined yet because it is structured as a sub-dao it means that it is defacto community owned and from ownership many network effects can then be derived from that so we view this as a foundation rather than its immediate utility.

What does being the center of web3 culture mean and how does holding apecoin matter? The expansion of apecoin utility is a primary goal and at the moment a lot of it is centered around using apecoin in some ways like a currency. Giving community ownership over a set of potentially growing NFTs adds to the utility in our view because the community can decide what to do with it, at minimum if it should be bought/sold or displayed somewhere. It could also decide to offer it for brand endorsements or fashion licensing opportunities, these NFTs like with BAYC come with commercial IP rights.

I would argue that a community vault is the beginning of building a long term sustainable capital base as a sub-dao.

Why should we hold different kind of NFTs and does the quantum matter? For budgetary reasons it does not make sense to have a large quantum of NFTs because the point of this sub-dao is not to control an ecosystem rather it is to say that it is a participant in a meaningful manner. In most cases owning 10 NFTs of anything of value makes you a top holder, maybe not the very very top but meaningful. It should also allow apecoin holders to have a legitimate voice in those various NFT communities as a result. Whether this be 10 NFTs or 50 or 100 is in many ways for the DAO to decide, the numbers could be viewed as illustrative.

By demonstrating that an apecoin sub-dao is now a holder of a certain NFT collection (lets say for argument sake its coolcats or mocaverse) it informs those communities about apecoin. More importantly it brings apecoin members, should they so choose, to also claim those NFT assets as membership to those NFT community if they were, for instance, token-gated. Added utility. Of course if the sub-dao were to buy 100 coolcats it would have a lot more influence and that is a possibility but that would be for the community to decide. This is simply a vehicle for this possibility.

You could say that is speculative but the point is that now that the sub-dao owns assets someone can offer 3rd party services that benefit the provider and the asset holder. A foundation of assets that one can compose experiences on, but you need to start with a set of assets first.

Finally, NFTs held in a DAO governed entirely by the community (i.e. apecoin holders) is very different than NFTs held by a whale who has sole discretion over what to do with it. This is not a hold and store value play, it is about community ownership and our assumption is that it will also create deeper engagement in apecoin because now they can decide on stuff apeholders actually “own”.

yatsiu · July 13, 2023, 6:35pm

Hi @MisterHype,

The committee was initially proposed to be us just because a) its practicality and expediency and b) we know we can quickly support this (admittedly it is not hard). The purchasing of certain NFTs is already governed by the AIP meaning there isn’t much flexibility for us (or anyone else) to do stuff beyond that at start.

The intention is that there would be a general election soon thereafter. Having a somewhat established sub-dao with assets in play makes it more attractive to run as well.

The idea would be AIP or sub-AIP driven, meaning no NFT buy/sell can be allowed without a community vote. The assumption being made that establishment of this AIP would then allow it to create these propoesd frameworks that must be voted on by the community in any event including alignment to the apecoin vision etc.
See my earlier point about how I think it benefits the ApeCoin DAO

yatsiu · July 13, 2023, 6:39pm

$Whale is great but as I recall its intention was always to collect great pieces of “art” or “collectibles” which is a very particular focus.

NFTs such as BAYC or Mocaverse or coolcats have utility, I view them in a slightly different lens. I would not, for instance, advocate that this sub-dao be buying fidenza’s primarily because network effects construct more narrowly when art is its only or prime utility.

This would make a great addition for clarifying the purpose of the community vault!

It comes down to what I wrote earlier, how do we give apecoin holders a sense of owning a piece of web3 NFT culture?

yatsiu · July 13, 2023, 6:47pm

Hi @SmartAPE,

I generally agree with your viewpoints about games and utility, I mean that is the mission of Animoca Brands and as you may know we are engaged in making a number of games that use $APE.

Inversely though I would add the comment that a lot of people who own APE wonder what it all really means to them if they can only “spend” it in a game but the cost of acquiring these assets becomes too pricey to engage them. You cannot expand ape utility when the underlying assets used to play with ape (i.e. the NFTs) become so expensive. Even if someone wants to try it out that option isn’t yet possible, you need to own your NFTs first.

This can be, in part, solved by a community vault. Granted the rental proposal is not included in this AIP but I don’t think it has to because anyone can now produce a 3rd party rental implementation with the sub-dao knowing it actually has assets it could utilize.

Another thought is that this sub-dao would only buy assets that utilize Apecoin or have announced a clear utility with Apecoin? Its an interesting thought for sure.

The intention originally was to broaden it is to also seek influence into communities that have yet to adopt apecoin as a way to reach out to more obvious target audiences. That said, we are at the IDEA stage hence the discussion we are all having!

yatsiu · July 13, 2023, 7:37pm

Also, a point to clarify if not already clear.

This is a community vault operating as a sub-DAO governed by the community through APECOIN and elections for those who may become its stewards. That is very different from some of the other proposals that would give control to a handful of people who can then decide what to do with it.

SmartAPE · July 13, 2023, 8:20pm

Hi @yatsiu

Thanks for the additional context. This helps a lot, actually.

Right. So, now we segue into the inevitable :

Why would the community want ownership of NFT assets?
Why would anyone in the community want to be BAYC holders?

Even in the affirmative, neither of the above yields a plausible answer to the ultimate question: How does this benefit the DAO?

Yeah, but why?

Right. So, with the DAO not setup for any sort of inbound revenue stream, how does this get done?

Also, you’ve basically proven my point. Which is great because it means that my missive above was clear in that this is just an activity that is akin to a poster in a subway or a painting on someone’s dining room wall. How does the DAO benefit from it - at all?

The DAO is barely a year old, and it has a long way to go in creating the building blocks of prosperity. It’s neither a museum, nor a curated collector. I don’t see how owning BAYC assets is going to advance that - in any way, shape or form.

I am not even going to get into the mechanics of self-dealing (Yuga ↔ DAO) because that’s a whole discussion all by itself. The DAO was specifically - and sensibly - setup to be a separate entity for a myriad of reasons. Going back and buying Yuga branded assets - with DAO funds - is a five fire alarm bell that’s going to be very loud (amid a littany of bad press) if somehow this idea makes it into AIP - and passes.

True enough. But the reality is that apecoin is a currency. It exists specifically for that purpose. The currency is completely separate from the IP that spawned it. There’s a reason for that.

I disagree with this in its entirety. Plus, the DAO wasn’t setup to do any of this. Buying (self-dealing aside) IP that has zero utiity or benefit to the DAO is basically throwing money away. For that, we should setup a charity and get it over with.

We can barely get people to talk about the Yuga IP, let alone expand it beyond 127K ape hodlers, but somehow - a DAO that isn’t even setup to generate rev, license, bizdev or promote ape - is going to engage in activities that are tantamount to running a full-blown corp entity? Yuga has an entire professional team specificall for that. Lets set aside the fact that besides Alex, yourself, me and possible only two or three others that I have thus far identied in the community, there aren’t any working group or assembly leaders currently active in the DAO with the level of [corp] experience required to pull any of that off.

These are all good intentions, but again, setting aside the machinations and propositions, I fail to see how this benefits the DAO.

Aside from that (and that whole self-dealing thing), this could be [incorrectly] construed as having all the makings of market manipulation because we’re basically buying a pool of NFTs in a bid to artificially prop the value of a token that’s also instrically tied to our DOA. And this idea basically coming on the heels of a severely depressed NFT floor price is just another alarm bell. This is bad. Completely.

And I absolutely do not see how the DOA holding other NFTs somehow gives us a voice in those other NFT communities. The great thing about Web3 has been the closely knit communities, with very little rivalry - if any. So, we already have a voice. It’s already a village that we belong to. We’re not asking for permission to join nor to opine on anything other than the desire to build and belong. Owning my neighbor’s mortgage doesn’t mean I get to throw a party on his lawn whenever I feel like it. Similarly, owning other NFT assets doesn’t grant us any “voice” we don’t already have. I mean, bragging rights? To what end? We’d get laughed at so hard, we’ll end up voting to auction off those NFTs so fast.

It sounds and looks good on paper, but I feel that you’re missing a critical aspect of this pitch: human nature.

Please provide a single example of how this would actually work, and how it ultimately benefits the DAO (that being us).

I would specifically like to see an example of what types of experiences can be created from a “foundation of NFTs” that we own.

ps. The DAO isn’t setup to own, let alone sell, anything. And setting up a sub-DOA isnt going to change that without changing the structure and mission of the DAO. And going by current trends, that’s another hill to climb.

Yeah, but it is a “hold and store value” play, though. We’re going to buy items of value, store - and hold them.

We can’t even get the DAO to vote on AIPs that are intrisically beneficial (from the perspective of those who lost) to it, and gaming the whole process aside, how on Earth are we going to be able to decide what to do with assets that we “own” when the decision is held by vote in which there ARE bound to be winners and losers? It will never work. It never does. It’s not a negotiation whereby the aim isn’t to win, but for both sides to get something. Voting in a DOA is an all or nothing proposition in which the losers are going to be sore.

We should focus on achieveable and sustainable goals and activities which promote the culture and in turn, apecoin. Not curating and hoarding NFTs in the hope that, one day, we can actually do something with them.

ps: I realize that my opinions aren’t going to be popular among those who think that this is a fantastic idea, but nevertheless I offer them in the spirit of community, and because someone has to be an opposing voice of reason (saying “no” without explaining oneself, is just a waste of time - and also impolite) or we’re just in a echo chamber hug box.

SmartAPE · July 13, 2023, 10:55pm

Yes, I am aware. I am also aware that VC and investors gave funds to their inexperienced bros, friends and family, who then flooded the market with rubbish social experiments pretending to be ‘games’. Then, after it all crashed and burned whatever growth prospects Web3 gaming had, they started pointing the finger at Web2 builders because their bags sprung a leak on the way to the bank. And when they could no longer sustain liquidity, they started cannibalizing the market - eventually crashing the once thriving NFT market which is currently comprised of the same actors keeping the churn to see who dies last.

Some of us who have been around long enough to see and survive trends are trying to recover from this because gaming is our life blood and livelihood. I stopped observing from the sidelines and joined this DAO because I saw the potential to help bring change, credibility and hope in the only way that I know how: building games that bring people together and which have traditionally been the quickest path to adoption of any ecosystem that involves a community.

I disagree with this. Most people don’t wander through life wanting stuff that’s beyond their reach. The entire concept of being in a community isn’t to own stuff. It never was. I mean, the whole P2E concept has seemingly failed specifically for this reason.

And what are you going ‘try out’ by owning an NFT?

And you do not need an NFT to utilize ape in a meaningful way. This thought process is how we ended up with HV:MTL which, merely days before the hype wore off, the average gamer needed $1,000 to play. We didn’t do that. We didn’t ask for that. Yuga setup the game to do that. And it had zero effect in promoting ape. It was just more noise and just another statistic in the pool of failed Web3 gaming experiments.

Owning an NFT of any kind means different things to different people, one size never fits all.

Specifically, that you think owing an NFT is somehow going to boost engagement means that you really don’t understand that the ongoing crash is specifically for those same way of thinking. I get that your goal is to boost and protect your many investments which are all tied to the NFT paradigm and ecosystem, but it’s time to think outside the box and understand that Web2 gaming didn’t prosper because we wanted to own stuff. It prospered because of builders like us who ARE a part of the community. And where there’s cohesion there’s prosperity. It’s why you don’t see everyone buying or rocking a $100K skin in CS. Most gamers don’t care about any of that. They just want to have fun, and in turn they reward the builders who create that fun.

It doesn’t benefit the DAO in any way, shape or form. So why do it?

And I still do not see how owning an NFT or a vault of them somehow gets communities to adopt ape coin.

Moonlyght · July 14, 2023, 6:47am

I like this. It would leverage apecoin holder participation into utilising the NFTs in many creative ways. The only thing I would consider adding (or give some thought into it) is to consider top tier collections like DigiDaigaku, which are developing mobile games and created very interesting smart contracts. They also did the very first Free NFT collection giveaway on television during the Superbowl of 2023, plus the team has some of the best engineers.

Evil · July 14, 2023, 7:07am

how do we give apecoin holders a sense of owning a piece of web3 NFT culture?

Fractionalizing blue chip NFTs to over 100k+ addresses? Value would be decreased drastically I guess. I seriously love you are getting down yourself and putting this up and interacting with the community seriously.
We can surely cook this up but I’m not able to see how this would benefit or even effect $ape and the culture. It’s like Bill Gates completing side quest; when he crossed a certain amount of subs on youtube and got the trophy lol.

If anything, I am pushing towards cross community efforts like Moca DAO x Apecoin DAO through Thank Ape. If anything, we as Apecoin DAO should put forward an AIP to aquire 50-100 Moca and actively take part in their voting as well.

yatsiu · July 14, 2023, 8:56am

Apecoin can and in my opinion should be more than “just” a currency is my point. On the topic of general community ownership of NFTs

The DAO is structured to be governed by the community, the ability to change aspects of the DAO is part of its design. It is not for anyone of us to unilaterally decide what the DAO should or should not do if the community wishes to go in a certain direction. A difference of opinion is natural and healthy of course the choice however belongs to the community.

Acquiring a small number of NFTs that have some kind of value is not, in my opinion, throwing money away because the community can always choose to sell these NFTs and, if they so choose, return the funds to the DAO.

Acquiring 10 NFTs of a collection of 10,000 represents 0.1% of a collection, this would hardly be construed as market manipulation. If there is a concern around this we could always propose to never exceed a certain materiality threshold.

This is why it is being proposed to be a sub-DAO! The point about this proposal is to operate outside of the main DAO but with the same apecoin holders having governance control over it. Perhaps the more appropriate terminology might be sister-DAO rather than sub-DAO but sub is still relevant in that control rests within the apecoin token holders.

Some examples could be, as mentioned earlier to create rental arrangements, you can create a form of membership and apecoin holders may use these NFTs via some agreed mechanism.

and again, as it operates as a sub-dao it is not the DAO itself. The only reason why we propose it as a sub-dao is because it would be community governed.

I respect your perspective but I would say that this is an opinion. I don’t agree that this proposal does not promote the culture and in turn apecoin for the initial reasons I outlined right at the beginning. I understand that you do not believe that but certainly some of the comments in this discussion indicate that there are least a number of apecoin holders that seem to think that this is a good idea that goes beyond the idea that this is about “curating and hoarding” NFTs. This was not the intention of an NFT community vault. I of course appreciate that this sample base is subjective in nature.

Without knowing more about which specific proposals that you believe are intrinsically beneficial but were not voted on I would offer my perspective that I have more faith in the apecoin DAO that it can ultimately lead to a beneficial outcome because when you have ownership in something, no matter how small, you will start to care more about some of the related outcome. There are a number of studies that indicate that a sense of ownership increases their care and concern over that “owned” assets/items and is really a key part of why I think giving a sense of ownership in some of these NFTs to the community is a good idea.

Some interesting related materials Psychological Ownership and Feelings of Possession: Three Field Studies Predicting Employee Attitudes and Organizational Citizenship Behavior on JSTOR Psychological Ownership and Feelings of Possession: Three Field Studies Predicting Employee Attitudes and Organizational Citizenship Behavior and https://www.researchgate.net/publication/344479459_Caring_for_the_Commons_Using_Psychological_Ownership_to_Enhance_Stewardship_Behavior_for_Public_Goods

NFD · July 14, 2023, 9:02am

Like the idea, however, I think most of what you are looking to achieve can be delivered via the idea i posted yesterday and without the need for the DAO to buy assets. Would love to get your thoughts on this, @yatsiu