Could we imagine thereafter that each Member of the Special Council is “assisted” by 3/4 people in the same way for example as in politics with the ministers and the “members of their office”?
They could have a budget to allocate to these assistants, who could be on the ground in front of all the members of the community?
They could be in charge of multiple tasks of Cartan actually ?
We can always put an AIP together, with everything in place, and vote out the CARTAN at any stage I think?
If they manage to get their purposely late submitted AIP with added 2,000,000 price tag approved I think will just give ample time to fully pad out the above ideas and plan, also put in place a full term hand over period of 3 months, and maybe see it as beneficial?
Yes, we are now seeing more people from the community voice their understanding for an extension. For or Against, which is great! I would love to see a vote in Favor coming from the community, and not an intervention from outside parties.
At the end of the day, we drafted this to help us get to a resolution one way or another. A piece of the puzzle to help get to the final picture.
ApeCoin can expect the next several months be a bit bumpy rides, we will get past these crisis, and ApeCoin DAO will be stronger!
Centralizing SC in this way is dangerous. If you willingly give them a court, they become kings. In the meantime, still nobody’s talking about the job that SC is actually supposed to do, that is, 1. speed up AIP processes and 2. warn us when our US-facing frontends will require geofencing instead of saying nothing and having everyone go nuts for 2 weeks.
Amplify is working on a doc that details working groups, and I’m doing everything I can do make sure those working groups are the Representatives and Senators of ApeDAO that are separate and distinct from the Executive Branch, the SC. They should not be in Nero’s Court having orgies with SC while Rome burns. Why start at the Fall?
But bottom line is that all initiatives should come from the legislature, not the executive or the judiciary. Moving into Executive Activism or Judicial Activism kills decentralization.
Great idea! Create a frame work structure how the executive working groups interface with the leadership team.
In theory yes but not quite “any stage”
Per AIP 1, if this AIP is approved, the earliest they could be voted out would be 3 months
Dude, everybody thinks this is such a new structure when it’s not. The format of ApeDAO resembles the three branches of the republican government of the United States. This DAO isn’t doing anything new at all in terms of government structure.
SC - judicial (this means you make sure initiatives are lawful, nothing else)
Cartan - executive (this means you execute legislative decisions, it does NOT mean “lead”)
DAO - legislative (this means all initiatives come from here)
Everybody’s problem is they want to convolute and pollute the responsibilities of each branch. That’s why the government the Founders had in mind lasted for about 5 minutes.
If we stuck to the basic definitions, everything would be fine. But we won’t, and I know this. Everybody’s got to make things more complicated because people.
I just know that once a team is ‘removed’ or ‘replaced’ etc, their will to help, no matter what they say beforehand, is never the same in reality. We need to literally, and I know this sounds bad, but squeeze every once of info and knowledge from them, that really is only known from time in the job, which would then be a solid basis to start the future on. We only achieve this imho with a paid period of transition.
The bumpy road can be made much smoother I feel with a solid hand over period.
Cheers @BoredApeG for the above and everyone’s input
Agree with your point that we didn’t create the situation, it’s the second time Cartan has created this risk
First time was in September and they were rewarded for a 3mo extension and now we’re being put in the same situation. The fact Cartan is asking the DAO to speak with the SC instead of themselves directly is also a bit concerning.
End of the day, $APE is bigger than its administrators. Still a lot to do but we’ll emerge even stronger.
3 months is generally the gold standard in the UK for a hand over period when you replace a core legacy system, to ensure the handover process is done meticulously and methodically and ensure the continuing running of the system in that time frame and it also ensures the continued success thereafter. So for me that actually is a very reasonable alternative solution.
totally agree with this
Agree but speaking about some Cartan actual tasks for these persons, not about the missions of SC.
Decentralization has its advantages but one of its shortcomings is the execution time.
In certain periods, you have to be able to react quickly but I also share your opinion that it can be dangerous, you have to weigh the benefit/risk ratio according to the problems and their level of urgency.
Considering how quickly this AIP came to be, and how close it is to their contract expiring, it may make the most sense for an extension as is with the intent to modify the agreement at a later date. Our end goal here is less reliance on Cartan, but until we have a full understanding of what that is exactly and what working groups we’ll need, keeping Cartan will help us transition into the new year and new council positions. A paid 3 months sounds more than reasonable to me, but bottom line is that we need Cartan to continue working with a transition period to a new system if that’s where we are headed.
This should be a lesson for DAO members to learn more about what Cartan does exactly, and to hold them more accountable for upholding their responsibilities. We can start by understanding what they do according to this statement: “Administering and operating a DAO is a specialised skillset that requires expertise across engineering, finance, social media management, treasury management, governance, marketing, communications, and policy development.”
Thank you to all for working over the weekend on this. No matter how this gets resolved, we will be a stronger DAO moving forward!
Thank you @BoredApeG for demonstrating your commitment to the potential SC role with action. Even more importantly, I appreciate your attitude right now. You’re showing leadership through maturity and optimism (let’s focus on what’s next) versus unproductive debates or through a wallet with overpowered voting rights. I really hope to see you in the top five before this voting period is over.
I would be interested to know if our current Special Council was well aware of Cartan’s contract needing renewal. This seems to be yet another “too little too late” scenario of communication, and could have been prevented if discussion regarding the new term had started earlier.
Everyone was aware. But bc the process is dependent on an AIP submission it falls on Cartan to submit - which they waited until the last possible moment to do, forcing us into the situation we face now
I think this is on the table.
In my opinion what should not be in the table is voting “for” with the intention of then trying to undo or “unwind” AIP-183 3 months later as board members like Yat (whom we all respect) have suggested.
As @badteeth has clarified, this is a proposal in the event of a AIP failure, which looking at the current votes is a real possibility.
I’d also like to understand why there doesn’t seem to be a real contingency plan in place from the existing Special Council with the possibility of AIP failure looming large. We’ll hopefully know more after the call which we’ve requested be recorded for the sake of transparency and visibility to the community.
To make my position clear, due to the Spaces held on Friday and the way this AIP was ‘pushed through’ at the last minute with lack of clarity and details that are required of other AIPs in order to go to vote (see: the BoringDAO AIP @Feld proposed literally detailing out their use of funds in a very detailed and specific manner), I am voting against AIP-183 in its current form.
My hope is we can find a path forward together that minimizes risk all around and that’s what we hoped to accomplish with this transition plan.
I would like for the DAO to become more and more self sufficient over time. This would mean less dependency on a 3rd party operator rather than more. The current AIP-183 goes in the opposite direction of this. However, having said that, we find ourselves in a rather precarious situation and one that could have been avoided. I appreciate the work you and several others are urgently putting into this to draft a new AIP. My greatest concern lies in what happens to the DAO come Jan 1st if we vote this down (aip 183) and don’t have a succession plan in place. My current point of view is that I am voting in favor of AIP-183, not bc i fully support it but because I desire a smooth transition to a new provider or system and I don’t currently see a path for that happening over the next two weeks. I would also like to see the 3 new council members have some operational stability as they start. If we pass the current AIP we can discuss and vet out more options and propose a change in 3 ish months. Yes, this AIP is written for a year, but it does not have to last that long if the desire is to go in a different direction. I do not know the legal ramifications if we approve and then change paths before the end of the term. Maybe someone else has more insight on this point.
@BoredApeG appreciate the work you and others are putting in to create a path forward. I do not know how quickly this can get done, and put up for vote. Would love for someone to clarify the timeline. I won’t be on the call later (Sunday) as it sounds like only 10 are allowed to join and those have already been selected. I will continue to work to stay in the loop and am willing to help where needed both if AIP passes or if it fails.