PROPOSAL NAME: Deploy apestake to apechain from ethereum to apechain (when ready)
PROPOSAL DESCRIPTION:
About 150m ape is staked on apestake, I propose that it would make sense for the DAO to deploy the staking contract exclusively to apechain once it is ready.
BENEFIT TO APECOIN ECOSYSTEM:
Creates immediate TVL for Apechain which is a relevant metric, accelerates utility on chain not just for staking but other defi opportunities should they arise and brings all the relevant ecosystem members onto Apechain on pretty much day one. It will also increase utility for Ape and will effectively move ape and ape users onto Apechain instantly.
There are several considerations chief among them is that the staking contract will need redeployment and changes that have not been scoped at this moment in time and the related costs.
Tokens will also need to be bridged across which will need to be supported in Apechain anyway so presumably that is not the biggest hurdles.
This is an idea discussion and we will also not be the party that will implement this, maybe the previous developer (Horizon) can consider doing this given the mutual incentive on hand.
Would be happy to see it if the migration cost is near zero; otherwise, it is not feasible or practical to do. ApeChain requires new money inflow, instead of the TVL from the same group of people.
I don’t think we will get a lot of support in ending the staking program although I generally understand your point. In terms of moving TVL it’s actually what happens when you claim tokens on another chain it creates utility and activity for people to build products and services on the new chain to avail themselves to some of that value flow which is the reason why L1/L2s build incentives for that and it has worked to increase chain activity/utility etc.
To the extent that the staking program already exists and on the assumption that we can’t end it as it won’t succeed a vote why not make the staking program work for Apechain is the thinking.
No expert, but for me it makes sense to migrate everything we can to apechain and not be so fragmented (parts of our “main operations” scattered over various chains).
Also we’d see cost savings for users. But potentially, initially, an outlay may be required. Would be good to see some numbers.
Yup. I know how it would be done, but I wasn’t talking about that. It seems that I wasn’t clear with my question. My question was about this (bold):
“In terms of moving TVL it’s actually what happens when you claim tokens on another chain it creates utility and activity for people to build products and services on the new chain to avail themselves to some of that value flow which is the reason why L1/L2s build incentives for that and it has worked to increase chain activity/utility etc.”
How is moving the staking contract from eth to ApeChain going to facilitate the [bold] parts above?
Indeed. However, at a minimum, among other solutions, we could use something like an xERC20 cross-chain staking solution.
Anyway, it’s not that hard to do. Just need an experienced dev team. Thinking about it…now that ApeChain testnet is up, I can probably do a staging test using a Ganache environment, then deploy it. Sounds like a fun test - if only I had the time.
Anyway, I don’t believe that going through the hassle, costs and risks of migration is worth the effort giving that staking doesn’t benefit the DAO in any way, shape or form. We would just be throwing more of the treasury into a black hole - even when you take the eth fees into account.
I have made this point over and over and over and over.
In fact, the BB has less funding now than when it was setup in July when $ape was around $0.80. Recently, it’s barely able to hang on to $0.60 - and more unlocks are on the way in about two weeks.
I had posted (I will dig it up) a metric trend that I ran back in June (when I returned from my DAO hiatus) whereby I showed that the token is likely to go less than $0.40 by YE24 and is likely to tank even more by end of Q1/25. Since June, when I opined on this, it’s tracking to do just that. Why? Because the token has no utility. And most don’t seem to be in the least bit concerned about it; even as they [foolishly] believe that somehow ApeChain is going to make a difference when thus far, like the token, it has no [visible] catalyst for doing so.
/steps off soapbox
This is precisely where we are now. We don’t have the benefit of a new token. NFT collections are down bad. The token is tanking at an alarming rate and with currently no reason for anyone to buy it other than to hodl and/or stake (which has its own set of ramifications). But everything is fine tho because that’s what CT is telling us.
I want to take this opportunity to post the latest token metrics from Messari.
New gaming token listings and average performance as of 8/9:
Q3 2023: 6 new gaming tokens / -9%
Q4 2023: 10 new gaming tokens / -85%
Q1 2024: 18 new gaming tokens / -76%
Q2 2024: 24 new gaming tokens / -59%
It’s not just gaming tokens that took a hit, it’s all alts. On Binance, since the start of 2024 through 8/9: non-gaming new token listings are down 51.3% on average versus gaming new token listings down 62.7% on average
They now have 3.1M left in a delegated wallet, and they used it to vote a week ago. Like corps, they’re likely selling due to taxes, CAPEX expenses etc.
But the issue is that the DAO would be funding that effort obo of users who don’t return any value to the DAO. So, what’s the point of doing that? If it’s only to move the transactions from one place to another, just so we can say it’s on ApeChain, I can see how the optics of that would work. I mean, after all, the DAO has spent millions on far more useless activities, so why not this too?
if the staking still exists, it has to be on apechain. its literally no brainer! staking/unstaking cost good sum of gas on 3rd party protocols like benddao so this could be another motivation for it to be on apechain.
What makes you think they would kill it? Our delegated tokens are fixed amounts after all, if they kill it it’s because they have ape coin individually as a presumption. Less dilution is arguably better for them too.
Well yeah, that was the thought process behind my opining that they are likely to kill it because it’s likely that some of them have personal holdings.
And while the less dilution is a good argument, I don’t believe that the ends justifies the means.
None of this matters now anyway, since the DAO won’t likely have the funding to do this in the short-term even if it goes up for vote.
I wonder what it cost Polygon to recently migrate (which seemed to have gone very smoothly) from $matic to $pol because this could cost more.
How about as part of the new staking process you have to delegate your staked Ape.
You can pick from the list of active delegations, but you could always delegate to yourself.
Both choices have benefits.
Delegating to active communities helps them grow and enhances participation.
If you delegate to another wallet and vote from there it is safer as you aren’t voting from the wallet with your APE and/or other assets. This reduces the concern about wallet security risk when people vote personally.
A nicely made front end which makes this seamless would be great. Also this would tie in nicely to a new voting model which could incorporate both Snapshot (for temp check, e.g. need over x APE support, think 100k-200k to post) and Tally (1m-2m to post directly).
What do you think about this?
Also reducing staking is unreasonable to people who bought NFTs and APE knowing they can stake with them. If launch partners and Yuga reduced their allocation by the same percentage it would be reasonable (specifically for their ape which is locked and they don’t get staking rewards, or do they get rewards on the locked part not received yet?) Which they can’t legally without all parties agreeing and probably don’t want to.
If staking ends how much APE are you going to buy? or you expect the market to buy vs sell. Trying to understand what change in effective demand you think it might have?
In order to start voting, you must delegate to someone or yourself. The advantage to this is, then you can see all voting power wallets. Currently, on delegate apecoin DAO website, you can only see how much delegated and not how much is in wallet or staked for delegates.
