AIP-379: Thank APE - Phase II: Amplifying a Movement

Thank you. Good luck to you too!

Thanks for the additional feedback. It’s easier to address your specific support needs with a support person, but I’m happy to address your feedback quickly:

DM us about what your needs are. Monthly ago, we scaled up a dedicated support team that addresses ApeCoin-related needs as soon as we learn about them. You shouldn’t be in any kind of loop, and we’re happy to help.

We do have system checks in place. We know rewards offered are largely accurate - but we aren’t perfect. Sometimes people have unique circumstances or needs, or encountered a bug others hadn’t yet seen. When new needs pop up, we are here to address them. We’ve given you the direct contact info of team members if you have more needs going forward.

We’ve already addressed this in your other comments. This isn’t us; we aren’t ApeCoin legal. Still, we’ve offered to provide support wherever we can.

We hope this helps. Thank you for your feedback and your contributions to ApeCoin DAO.

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Thank you @CartelValkyrie.

We appreciate you calling this out. We hope our contributions and results speak for themselves.

Thank you. Good stewardship of resources is, often, the difference between success and failure. We take our stewardship - our efficiency - very seriously.

Yes, thank you. True decentralization requires making it easier for all people to make contributions. That’s a core tenet of our work. We’ve made things easier for ApeCoin DAO - which has meant more decentralization.

This too is a core value of ours. Web3 is an experiment; ApeCoin DAO is an experiment. We won’t win by being perfect - that’s impossible. We’ll win by putting ourselves out there, learning what works and doesn’t, and consistently getting better.

Again, thank you @CartelValkyrie for your many kind words - and for your amazing contributions to our ApeCoin DAO.

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Hey @thrivegiraffe and all Thank APE team (old/new),

It’s impressive to see the progress and impact Thank APE has had on ApeCoin DAO over the past year. YOU NAILED IT.

It’s evident that Thank APE has been a driving force in overcoming challenges and actively contributing to the ApeCoin community during a challenging market period. I believe the proposed Phase II builds upon these successes and addresses the evolving needs of the DAO.

100% support for Thank APE - Phase II and its mission to create greater value, efficiency, and utility for the ApeCoin ecosystem.

@Apewhale / @Halina.eth / @SeraStargirl / @BoredApeG - You made for us a great example of collaboration, $APE culture and ecosystem education which should focus on small businesses as well.

Exciting for Phase II.
-Mr. Hype :fire:

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Hi @thrivegiraffe ,

The community feedback period for your proposal would be ending in less than 24 hours.

  • If you’re content with the feedback received, your next steps are to finalize your proposal using the AIP Draft Template.
  • A moderator will reach out to the author to finalize the AIP Draft. Upon receipt of the final Draft, we will review and provide instructions on the next steps.
  • Are you ready to proceed to the next phase or do you wish to extend community discussion for another 7 days?

We look forward to hearing from you.

-@Facilitators

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This topic was automatically closed after 7 days. New replies are no longer allowed.

Hi @thrivegiraffe ,

Thank you for your ideas [and the ApeCoin DAO community for the insightful discussions].

A moderator will reach out to the author to finalize the AIP Draft using the appropriate template.

  • Once the AIP Draft is confirmed by the author and meets all DAO-approved guidelines, it will receive an AIP ID number and move forward for Draft Analysis Review.
  • @thrivegiraffe please see your messages for the next steps.

Follow this Topic as further updates will be posted here in the comments. In accordance with DAO-approved guidelines, if the author does not respond within 30 days, the proposal will be automatically transferred to the Withdrawn category, and the author can re-submit the idea.

-@Facilitators

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Hi ApeCoin DAO Community,

Edits have been made to this Topic by the author’s request. You can click the Pencil icon at the top of the post to see these edits.

Additionally, @thrivegiraffe has completed editing their AIP Idea to be their AIP Draft. This proposal has been assigned the AIP ID Number 379.

Follow this Topic as further updates will be posted here in the comments.

Kind Regards,

-@Facilitators

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I love Thank APE but can we take a step back and take a look at how this is costing over $1.3m to run for one year? (840k $APE). Seems crazy to me for something that started out as a simple way to reward users for participation.

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@Balou thanks for writing. We are happy to address your comment.

Thank you. We appreciate your contributions to the DAO too.

We’ve been hoping someone would ask us about cost - as it would give us an opportunity to share a longer reply. Thank you for the gracious - and fair - way in which you asked. Answers below (and we can provide more details if desired):

  1. Cost is performance-based: The all-inclusive service fee cost is 20% of the rewards our community earns. While the agreement is technically for one year, we would, if needed, continue to provide support at no additional cost until all rewards are earned for value creating contributions - as we did this year.

  2. Cost is in APE - not USD: In our first proposal, the cost was 42k APE - which, at the time, was worth about a quarter of a million dollars. We didn’t spend any of that APE, and today it is worth a fraction of that amount. We take on the risk of the fluctuating price cycles of ApeCoin. Even without that risk, we are footing much of the bill. We estimate that the cost to us for Thank APE this year was just shy $1M. We’ve gone above and beyond - and we will continue to - because we believe in our work together.

  3. Yes, Thank APE - from the perspective of our community - is a “simple way to reward users for participation.” But, like all good tech, what makes it so simple is expensive people and tech that do good work. Thank APE is built on the back of a protocol and set of apps that validate complex contributions, reward everything, attest to it all on-chain, and more. Additionally, we’ve committed in the proposal to another set of tech innovations for ApeCoin. Additionally, we provide board support and core team support to ensure that, together, we drive the kind of results the community has come to expect. We manage all of this complexity so that we keep it simple (and effective) for our community!

  4. The 20% that we’ve allocated to service fees includes everything - all of our protocol fees (which, for lessor tech, can be 20% alone), all of the custom development (which is ongoing and extensive), all of the core team support (including dedicated people), and all of our board support (six board members). Assuming the price of ApeCoin stays the same, we would still lose money on this deployment - as we did in 2023. But, again, we believe in the future we are building together with our ApeCoin community.

  5. The vast majority of ApeCoin in this proposal - 80% - is allocated back to the community for your value-creating contributions. Our infrastructure and services help ensure the APE is allocated in a way that drives the most possible efficiency, utility, and value. You can see the impact of our work in the data. In Thank APE - Phase I, with less than 0.4% of the treasury, we were able to fund 5.3x more projects in our DAO than the entire AIP process combined. We brought thousands of contributors into our DAO - supporting governance processes, culture, builders, merchants, and more.

Thank you again for your great question. It is an important one, and we are excited to address any other questions around it as well. Yes, there is a cost component to this proposal. But we feel confident that the outsized value we provide justifies the costs required to create that value.

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Thanks for your response. A few follow up points.

AIP-124 was one-time funding leading to a self sustaining model. It feels like $1.3m isn’t self sustaining?

If true that it cost $1m to run thank ape this year then I’d suggest that’s not a great way to hand out 33k apecoin to contributors?

Just because the 20% was used this year (7k for 33k handed out) doesn’t mean that’s a proportion that should stick when the proposal is asking for multimillion apecoin rather than a few 10’s of thousands.

Thanks.

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Thanks for the additional questions, Balou. I’m happy to address them.

Thank you for bringing this up. When we wrote AIP-124, we believed there was a trend in ApeCoin toward funding revenue-driving projects. As an example, an ApeCoin marketplace had been funded that we had conceptually agreed would have 25 basis points be returned to the DAO through Thank APE.

The belief at the time was that Thank APE could drive toward “sustainability” by encouraging projects like the marketplace and others to “return” some earned funds to the DAO through Thank APE. Passed AIPs were largely aligned with this idea.

In practice, there was only one, big issue: no ApeCoin project earned any significant revenue. Thus, the “sustainable” revenue model wasn’t feasible - because there was no revenue to share.

This was an important learning experience from this past year. The impact was that we adjusted our framing and expectations in our work with other communities, like Optimism and Arbitrum. And - of course - we adjusted our framing and expectations with Thank APE: Phase II.

In Phase II, we are excited to continue to support ApeCoin driving towards sustainability. We can do that by funding the projects and initiatives that help grow the DAO, encourage critical infrastructure (like ApeChain) to be built, and help drive new and better revenue opportunities.

For clarity, we will be rewarding ApeCoin members for truly valuable ecosystem contributions. We are not “handing out” anything. Additionally, the proposal is to allocate out 3.36M APE (not 33k APE as you suggest), which, at today’s value, is 2.35x the annualized budget of our first ApeCoin initiative, which you love.

I’m happy, also, to address your last point too:

Respectfully, your numbers are inaccurate. Our first ApeCoin proposal was a six month proposal that was granted 242k APE, which at the time was valued at ~ $1.4M for six months or $2.8M annualized. This proposal is a one-year proposal that is valued today at ~ $6.6M annualized.

The difference between the annualized dollar value of the two proposals (apples to apples) is 2.35x - not 10 or 100x as you are inferring.

Our first proposal was an experiment. The results of that experiment have been seen ecosystem wide: we attracted thousands of contributors, funded hundreds of projects (across governance, culture, and infrastructure), and stewarded ecosystem growth during a hard time for web3 and for ApeCoin. Most people are calling it a success - as evidenced via comments here, even yours.

On that back of that experiment, we are asking for what is currently 2.35x more funding (apples to apples) so that we can expand the size of our impact. Yes, there is a cost associated with it - because even efficient, scalable impact does still cost money (as overviewed in my first response to you).

We believe that value we’ve helped create across the ApeCoin ecosystem (with the support of the thousands of contributors we’ve mobilized and hundreds of projects they’ve completed) was significant. And we believe Phase II will only massively amplify the impact we’ve begun to create together.

Again, thank you for your comments. We appreciate you.

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Thanks for your further responses, I’d be amazed if this passes in its current form personally.

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Thank you! We love to amaze people, and to be amazed by people. :star_struck:

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Well said :clap: I wish you to move forward and actively develop as you have been doing all this time :+1:

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@salmanneedsajob, thank you.

We’ve loved our work and partnership with Prop.house. We believe very much in these types of partnerships, and you are an example of how they lift up ApeCoin and our web3 communities.

We think so too. With Thank APE, the 20% allocated to support and services includes (among other things): protocol fees, ongoing custom development and integrations (our integrations and support for prop.house are one example of this), Thank APE board support, and dedicated Thank APE team support - a team leveraging playbooks and best practices from our work with ApeCoin, as well as our work with Arbitrum, Optimism, and others. It’s a lot - and it’s the reason we can steward so much impact.

Thank you for your kind words about Thank APE and ApeCoin. We look forward to all of your future contributions to our ApeCoin community.

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We need the explanations from Councils how some people got the trademarks for even several non related proposals right away and others waiting months , it seams there is some kind of one way support of specific people in this case. And then this can be legally taken as discrimination, no joke.
I think that all who didn’t deploy within timeframe and didn’t get extra rewards from Thank Ape must be equally compensated plus the retention triple pay.

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I think that Thank Ape is one of the best projects in web3. On the one hand, these are rewards for the community and it is really very pleasant and makes you immerse yourself in projects by completing tasks. On the other hand (if you look at it on a larger scale) this is a pretty good marketing project for the DAO, because at any time you can create a new task and thus launch an advertisement on Twitter at the expense of your community. The only thing that is confusing is that indeed, some tasks are not counted immediately but hang for weeks and this is a little demotivating, but only a little. I love this project, thank you for being there.

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You’ve written about this three times in this thread. Again, we aren’t the Special Counsel and we aren’t legal. So please talk to them - you can either write directly to SC members or they make themselves available on Spaces once a week.

As communicated before, going forward - based on your experience - we can disallow any projects that require usage of trademarks until there is clarity about how special counsel and legal can fast track approvals. And of course we’re extending timelines for any projects delayed because of existing trademark issues.

We understand that you are upset, but beyond asking about your trademark issues (which we’ve done) and altering future guidelines, we can’t help - because, again, we aren’t Special Counsel or legal. We wish you the best, and thank you for being a contributor to ApeCoin and Thank APE.

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@Marielle_Li, thank you for your kind comments. It’s a lot to live up to, but we’re trying.

Yes and yes.

This is fair. Sometimes, depending on validation criteria and/or anti-bot and bad actor measures contributions can hang for a while. This is to ensure we get things right and reward good behavior.

This means a lot to us. Thank you for being here too.

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