Is there a better breakdown of the use of nearly $1M for this AIP? Sorry if this was addressed, I looked through the forum and didn’t see anything detailed.
BoingyBoingy
2 Likes
This comment was “flagged” and hidden, but the bribe claim was never addressed. API aside, if this truly did happen then you should share a screenshot of the conversation and specific name.
Censorship within a comms team (if legitimate) is a really scary thing.
3 Likes
Was consideration given to create this group within the Apecoin Foundation rather than spinning it up externally?
The Communications Structure section directs Ape Foundation to do many things. Why not nominate yourselves to join the Ape Foundation and lead an internal organization?
4 Likes
Yes, that certainly was considered. This proposal has been in the works since July! We’ve had multiple calls w/ the administrators, for both this proposal, and then helping other proposals. There are some intricacies w/ how the Ape Foundation is setup, making that option nearly impossible to implement. Working groups typically will have to be independent, and will not be able to operate under the Ape Foundation’s name.
What we’ve done really well is getting legal recommendations and doing indepth proposal research. We’re not a group that recently formed, instead we’ve been operating for months to encourage proposals, doing things like giving proposal formatting advice and sharing community sentiment with authors. There are many legal considerations, in which we’ve gotten qualified recommendations, and still have more planned!
7 Likes
Seems like most of the problems the ApeComms will solve come from a lack of execution from the Special Council. Instead of creating the “ApeComms” why don’t you guys run for the Special Council?
At the moment the DAO is paying $20k a month for each Special Council member, and on top of that (if the ApeComs goes through) almost $1M which comes down to an additional $83k a month approximately.
I love the execution that you guys are suggesting and love members of the community like @0xSword (his contributions are amazing), but I believe you should step up and just replace the Special Council with the upcoming election instead of adding layers of bureaucracy.
Thoughts?
Thanks for reading,
Moonlyght
2 Likes
I have put some thought into this @Moonlyght . In July, our working group unofficially started helping giving proposal advice. I think now we’ve collectively met with ~25 proposers through Zoom. Many of us have been able to work alongside Maaria on things like EthSanFransisco or her delegation improvement proposal. She wasn’t who taught us how to write proposals though, and I’m not sure it’s their job to do what we do.
At least for me, I’d like to see multiple working groups. A group like ours encourages community, answers basic questions about the process, knows a few “hacks” to speed up proposals, and generally is comfortable with the process. A group that plans events, or manages metaverse properties is another idea. While it may be less “efficient” compared to a traditional corporate structure, there’s a lot of room here to build!
We educated ourselves on the fine details of the processes, filled a need in the community, formed a group that supports each other, and now we’re proud to put forward a proposal like this. From the beginning, for me, it has made the most sense to build additional structures within the framework set and voted on by token holders. One day we’ll likely see a group of marketers form, or certified treasury managers.
I think for me, it comes to a desire for decentralization. When there are many groups that are doing things, and we can put our communities talents to work, then its something we all can be proud of. What I don’t want to do is solely have a Special Council, without having additional opportunities for others. I believe that someone can grow here w/o seeking a board position, and something like this starts the conversation.
6 Likes
Hi, I just wanted to thank the team for adding the ApeComms team’s roles.
Looking forward to another AIP phase.
7 Likes
Thanks for the quick reply 0x! I would like to address some of your thoughts:
Yes, agree 100%, I would love to see multiple working groups within the DAO. But working groups I believe should coexist mainly to solve problems and create solutions by executing on ideas through actions. An example would be like you guys that help community members with Zoom calls through the AIP’s process.
Let’s examine what their job is to understand this better. They have mainly two responsabilities:
- Administer DAO Proposals
- Serve the vision of the community
Now both of these are broad terms and confusion comes to understand what exactly is that they do, quoting SSP here: “Granted, we don’t exactly know what they may have accomplished during their tenure.”
Let’s summarise the actions you guys wanna take if the ApeComms gets approved:
While all of the above I belive is great, what I wonder is, shouldn’t this be the Special Council’s job? To communicate with the community? And falling under the category of:
- Administer DAO Proposals
- Serve the vision of the community
If not, then I belive there is a problem at the core. Maybe a solution could be to re-evaluate what the “Job” of the Special Council is in a more detailed way instead of just using broader terms?
Again, I love what you guys are doing and the ideas you guys have to serve the community.
5 Likes
Indeed, you bring up some excellent points regarding Special Council, their roles and responsibilities and their “value” moving forward.
I’m not a proponent for removing the council (just yet), as I regard them as connective tissue to multiple billion-dollar brands in Web3 that one hopes will come to some fruition, somewhere down the line.
That said, clearer understanding of their marching orders and better communications would be a great next step, which is precisely what ApeComms hopes to deliver to the community.
While @0xSword may not run for council, the idea that communication personal ought to run and the fact that you quoted me has given me the grand delusion of running for Special Council myself, under my one and only issue and platform:
“It’s $20k a month, people”
I hope I can count on your support. Please vote
SSP - “It’s $20k a month”
6 Likes
After reading through all comments here, I think one issue is that we are not clear on the functional differences between the special council and ApeComms. It is understandable that the 1st term of the council was appointed but not elected, and the DAO was just constructed by that time. Since we’ll have a new nomination soon, these questions should be raised and solved during the election.
5 Likes
The two functions honestly should be merged. I’m having trouble seeing how the idea of a Special Council coincides with the idea of a DAO long term.
3 Likes
Hey ChrisL,
Thanks for reading through the proposal and the feedback here. At this point, there is a considerable amount of content between the original idea, the current draft and the community conversation in the comments. There are some distinctive differences between the Special Council & the proposed ApeComms initiative that I can point to now.
• The Special Council serves the vision of the community at the highest level, they are the “Board”. They review AIPs at an administrative level, if tagged by the Foundation Moderators, seeking to enforce the ethos of the DAO during their Administrative Review. They are in closed door conversations with the largest corporations and community builders, which generally requires KYC & various NDAs.
• The Special Council won’t be expected to introduce and manage a discord server.
• Special Council doesn’t spend time giving direct 1-on-1 support to AIP authors. They do go over proposals to consider risk to the DAO, and may return them for reconstruction before voting.
• Zoom calls, Discord chat, DMs and twitter spaces are some of the mediums we use to support AIP authors -“ApeComms will help members navigate the AIP process by creating on-demand educational resources and offering live in-person sessions. Fully complimentary services are available to all token holders.”
• The Special Council doesn’t manage the ApeCoin twitter account, and we won’t take total ownership either. They won’t be expected to manage or host weekly spaces, or do much blogging in general for the broad apecoin dao community.
Appreciate the opportunity to clarify a bit more here. And I agree, there is plenty of room to set/improve the communities expectations of the Special Council.
4 Likes
Thanks for the explanation. I think you elaborated very well about the differences even though this was not structured when the council was founded in the beginning. My concern would be, new councilors will need to be nominated and elected by the community. I’m not sure if these “high-level” council members are still connected with the “large corps”. But maybe I’m thinking too much. We’ll see how it goes in the coming election.
5 Likes
No problem. Thanks for your consideration!
The new set of process AIPs, currently up to vote for Special Council Elections and Nominations, open the door for the community to continue a conversation about further specifications there too.
This is quoted from the proposed Special Council Nomination Process - “ Focusing on the essentials, knowing that more nice-to-have yet complex additions (e.g., reporting requirements, gamified participation, working groups/subDAOs, complex vote-weighting techniques) can be addressed via follow-on AIPs at a later date.”
3 Likes
Thanks for sharing your thoughts ssp! Here’s some of mine:
Agree here, I wouldn’t be removing the council either, but I would look more into what the “value” and “execution” plus “accountability” of it should be.
This is an interesting point you make. Is the DAO then paying the Council $20k a month for “hopes” of what might come to fruition from their contacts in the industry? Personally I see an easy solution here, remove the “hopes” and change it with accountability with Monthly/Bi-Weekly reports so that we know what the progress/execution of that “connective tissue” to multiple billion-dollar brands is bringing.
“clearer understanding of their marching orders” and “better communications” shouldn’t that be a responability of the Council itself? Shouldn’t we make them directly accountable, instead of adding a layer of bureaucracy?
Exactly, if you put it that way doesn’t seem very appealing. But what if we identify a problem which currently exists (Lack of communication from the Council to the community) and find a solution? (Create ApeComms - Increase communication substantially). Doesn’t that sound more appealing?
But why does the DAO have to pay each ApeComms member $10k a month?
To increse the communication between the Council and the community? To create a Discord server? To host weekly Twitter spaces? To privately help community members through Zoom/Phone calls to sumbit AIP proposals?
Is that really worth it? (Quoting Mantis here) Shouldn’t some functions of the Council be merged with what the ApeComms is proposing? Like “better communication”.
Doesn’t seem much different than what you said above, but:
“It’s $10k a month, people, we’ll increase communication between the Council and the community, create a Discord server, host weekly Twitter spaces and help the community One-on-One with their proposals.”
I hope I can count on your support. Please vote.
My final thoughts:
I love what you guys are proposing and the execution that you present. The only thing I would love to discuss or open for debate is the “Overall Cost” section:
I would personally tackle the problem at the core which is a lack of communication from the Council, without adding layers of bureaucracy.
And yes, you could say that the Council’s job is different from the ApeComms, and I agree, they have a more administrative role compared to you guys wanting to help the community hands down. But communication? Accountability? Shouldn’t that be expected from them?
Looking forward to keep the discussion open for ideas and solutions!
-Moonlyght
3 Likes
as I regard them as connective tissue to multiple billion-dollar brands in Web3 that one hopes will come to some fruition, somewhere down the line.
This is the plus for having the Council,
problem at the core which is a lack of communication from the Council,
And this is the minus.
Minus far outweighs the plus, because I’m 100% sure that all the participants in this DAO have connections just as solid, maybe a single degree of separation farther, that you could tap if your ideas were good enough.
Special Council members at present have 15 other initiatives in their phones that are just as cool as Apecoin DAO. I’m adamant on this: The DAO will succeed when it has enough confidence in itself to build tech that focuses on finding new talent and creating jobs for them. Trying to be cool with web2 influencers is a dead meta.
4 Likes
Hey Lost,
Glad to see your reply to @ChrisL Here’s some of my thoguhts:
Would the DAO be willing to spend $10k a month for each member (8 members in total, $80k a month), to haveApeComms members offer live in-person sessions and creating on-demand educational content wheter they do 1 session or 10xx sessions?
I would be more open if the DAO pays the members for each session they do. Example:
November 2022, 5 sessions, ($500/per session) = Member gets $2500. This I believe will promote members of ApeComms to help more people as they will be rewarded by results instead of time.
1 Like
Hey @Moonlyght,
Thanks for your consideration here.
Our direct AIP support is only a part of the responsibilities we’ve outlined here in the proposal, all of the initiatives in this proposal can be complimentary to each other though. For example: guiding members on the forum, support with AIP authorship and process, elevation on twitter/other media, and more intimate discussions or feedback on Discord/Video conferences. We actually considered a model strictly for AIP construction support, similar to your suggestion, but felt that our proposed model offers more to individual authors and the DAO overall.
We’ve included KPIs and scheduled reporting as a part of the ApeComms directive so that we, and the entire DAO, can consider successes and areas for improvement. We took note of past proposals and discussions, so we included initial reporting expectations already.
As a DAO, we should expect those things from the Special Council, and I think we do. The new SC Election and Nomination proposals open the floor to discuss requirements and expectations for the Council.
As ApeComms we will work directly with both the community, the Moderators, and the Foundation (including Special Council), to continue to identify and serve the evolving needs of the DAO.
Thanks again for the opportunity to provide more clarity here!
Lost
3 Likes
-
I would recommend going with an auditor/discord builder that has experience, as this discord will undoubtedly be targeted for attacks because of the value of the assets being held by the community. I would personally like to volunteer if not to build it, then to do an audit on it after it is built to make sure the correct security procedures are in place to protect the community using it, as well as protect members joining.
-
Partial use of the official apecoin account can be used in a better way as well. A few things would have to be done for this next suggestion, all easy in nature though.
a)apply for a dev account with the Apecoin twitter account
b)apply for API usage
c)apply for elevated access so the tweet limits are essentially null.
Then make a bot for the account that would auto post any new proposals every Thursday @ 9pm EST so that the apecoin community is aware of the new proposals going up for vote. I tried to implement this on the ApecoinIRLevents twitter account, but there was a problem with the bot calling information and hitting a 403 limit when i have elevated access and that shouldn’t have been an issue. But the bot is being fixed as you can see here
I will be notified when it is completed. I recommend this because it will source engagement from a community who by my understanding doesn’t really keep up with what is going on, aside from a select group who have continued to vote and reply to proposals on this forum, and snapshot.
Also a bot could be implemented to post whenever a vote is cast for specific proposals. IE- ones that the community has been talking about at large. Post constant updates about those proposals to garner feedback/votes for whatever proposal it is (this can be accomplished the same way the bot could be implemented for new proposals, except it would follow a specific proposal instead of the forum as a whole)
these bots are already capable of posting DAO proposals and votes to discord and do so very well
-
I would be more than willing to get together with perhaps @0xSword and educate people on different topics. Most related to security since that is one of the biggest struggles right now for the NFT Community as a whole.
I support this initiative for better comms and the comms team and spoke about better comms with @ssp1111 on a few occasions and how it could be improved.
-Mac
7 Likes
Hey Lost,
Thanks for the quick reply and for sharing some of your thoughts. There’s one point that you didn’t address which I belive is the most crucial. The overall cost of the ApeComms to the DAO.
The ApeComms team as presented includes professional figures of: Educators, a Social Media Manager, Analysts, Facilitators (which are bascially Educators), Discord Mods & Coordinators. I’ve done research on some data regarding the average salaries of each category in the USA and here’s a breakdown*:
Educators: $2,700 mth.
Discord Mods: $5,500 mth.
Social Media Manager: $3,400 mth.
Analyst: $5,400 mth.
Facilitators: $2,700 mth.
Coordinators: $3,416 mth.
*(Data subject to change, info was taken from making Google searches.)
So, as much as I love the initiatives that you guys are proposing and it’s true, we need better communication/s between the Council/Moderators/Cartan Group and the community, is it really fair to be paying each ApeComms member $10k per month?
It reminds me of a Twitter post I saw the other day:
Looking forward to open this up for discussion.
Moonlyght 
2 Likes