Multi-player RPG Game For ApeCoin

If you saw my introductory post on the Apecoin forum, then you already know who I am.

Synopsis :

In late 2021, I created a startup company to transition two Web2 games to Web3. That was before the whole Web3 scene took a massive hit.

I have been in gaming for over 30 years and built a community that buys the games that I make. Safe to say that I know a thing or two about this.

I have always felt that Web3 presents tremendous opportunities for gaming, though the scene has been tarnished by blatant cash grabs masquerading as games. Which is precisely why there is so much hate and resistance from core Web2 gamers.

I have written about this several times in fact, while urging the industry to put the time, effort, focus and resources into making good games, while setting aside the whole financial P2E angle. You can read my articles here:

I am at the point whereby I need to make a decision on which Web3 community and their DAO I should collab with to build these games around so that we can break through the stigma associated with Web3 games in general.

Most games - good games that is - cost a LOT of money to make and take a LOT of time. This is not the kind of resources that Web3 generally tends to commit because thus far it’s been all about making money as quickly as possible.

I already have two 100% completed multi-player Web2 games which took years and cost millions of Dollars to make. One is a fantasy MMO RPG and the other is a combined arms FPS.

As I mentioned in my forum intro, involving the Apecoin community would mean using the $APE token (instead of launching my own), while involving the community in the Web3 aspects of the game’s ongoing dev. This includes things like economy, wallet integration, NFT selection etc. It would also involve giving the community immediate access to the game, appointing community leaders as game masters etc.

As I have yet to talk to the Apecoin leaders about my ideas, I just wanted to get the discussions going here to get a general consensus on whether or not the support is there for me to do this with this community as opposed to another (7 such Web3 communities made my short list).

How does this benefit ApeCoin? Simple. It provides a full-fledged multi-player game environment where we can hang out to meet & chat, explore, quest, build, trade & transact and grow the community. By making the game use $APE exclusively, we can not only grow the community by on-boarding Web2 gamers (even the skeptics), but we can also do our part to add much-needed value and utility to the coin. Remember, this isn’t an empty Metaverse world with nothing to do, nor a cash grab game with very little replay value. Plus, the Web2 game version already exists (you can play it today, if given access) - aside from the ongoing Web3 backend work and visual improvements.

NOTE: As this is a commercial property, and with the DAO not setup to own assets or receive income, if this is something that the community is interested in doing, we would have to figure out how to fund it via the DAO. I am open to suggestions, but perhaps something like a yearly (or one time) grant from the DAO would work because live games have monthly costs. And if the consensus is that the community would own and operate the game, it wouldn’t be much different from running this forum or Discord. It just needs experienced [paid] community people to operate it. We already have such people (devs, builders, artists, modelers, mods etc) here.

Also, I am not quite sure how this fits into the mandate of the yet to be formed Metaverse Working Group. But that’s another thing to consider and discuss.

Your comments are welcome. Thanks for reading.

ps: I decided not to use the AIP template because I want to solicit feedback before spending additional time on this.

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I this the topic you meant in our chat? Honored to meet you then!

If I undrstand correctly - the Otherside itself is supposed to be that - a Metaverse with a strong MMORPG aspect, with $APE being the core asset. This said - how would your game be different from OS itself?

At the same - it doesn’t stop the DAO from launching additional games lke Dookie Dash or LOTM - so creating another “sub-game” for Otherside may be a good idea.

Advantage: more fun in the ecosystem, more accessible (?)

Disadvantage: cannibalising OS the game; time+effort to make it look right

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Yes, this is the one.

It’s different because it’s way more advanced than OS and also provides a different experience in terms of gameplay, adoption, growth etc. This game cannot be built within the scope of OS because it’s far too complex, and OS isn’t Roblox or Fortnite.

All games are different and give different experiences. To wit: HVY:MTL is completely different from OS.

Primarily, OS isn’t going to grow that much outside of the Web3 culture which ALL Web3 games are struggling against. This game is a core Web2 game which I am positioning to seamlessly onboard skeptical Web2 gamers to Web3 while automatically introducing them to the ApeCoin community.

As different games, I don’t see it cannibalizing OS no more than HVY:MTL did. Plus, the more experiences there are, the wider the ApeCoin culture will grow.

Gaming is the gateway to Web3 adoption. The more good games, the better. This is what Mike recently said. Note that his former colleague is now at Yuga.

ps. I have more thoughts on this over here

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Also, Naavik’s June Web3 gaming report is out.

“As a whole, Unique Active Wallets (UAWs) largely remained stable in June compared to May. More specifically, casual games continued to drive more significant increases, while more transaction-driven (and bot-heavy) games experienced slow declines in UAWs last month. Should high-quality web3 games release this year, there are a robust core of web3 players who will, at the very least, trial the game. However, there doesn’t seem to be any indication that web3 is attracting new players in the interim”

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I love this idea. I am a gamer at heart but could not be actively involved due to my service in the Navy. However I did download MOBA games on my phone and play a battle or two during breaks. That’s when I realized there’s a huge following for multiplayer battle arena games in Asia and the rest of the world. There are some NFT projects that are a perfect fit for MOBA games and I’d love to see someone work on that. I don’t know the technical aspects of game dev but I felt that these games are easier and cheaper to develop, but my understanding could be flawed.

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Amazing. What are their names and where/how can we check out these games?

Also, since you’ve built in web2, it would be awesome if you could perhaps link to your web2 resume such as LinkedIn? You won’t have to say “Safe to say that I know a thing or two about this” if people can just see what you’ve built.

Thank you!

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Indeed. However, I don’t make MOBA games. There’s an entirely dfferent market segment that’s hard to crack. And even though MOBA games are the backbone of eSports, even those entities no longer make any money from the sport - and are struggling.

Also, MOBA games aren’t community driven in terms of the Metaverse (whatever that is these days) because they’re short-term engagements. I believe that multiplayer (e.g. MMO, live games etc) games are more in tune with communities and thus the Metaverse paradigm.

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I have refrained from posting the names specifically because my goal is to first garner interest in the prospects of actually bringing the games to the ApeCoin community (which is much smaller than my game installs). To that end, that’s why I created this thread instead of doing an AIP (in which I would provide a lot more detail) and going from there. I don’t particularly want to put effort into doing an AIP if it’s likely to fail anyway. Plus, I was asked to apply to be a steward of the upcoming Metaverse Working Group; and with that, I don’t know how that would ultimately affect the AIP as there are no rules about that - yet.

Oh, we’re doxing now, are we? :stuck_out_tongue:

ps. You can also click on my SmartApe profile to see a link to my bio.

I think you missed it, but my full intro is in this thread below from a few days ago. Hope that answers your queries. Yes - I do know “a thing or two about this”. :face_with_peeking_eye:

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It seems you need to change some setting first:

Screenshot 2023-07-12 at 11.07.52 AM

This community loves games; they are an obvious sink. What matters with games is execution, not ideas, and that’s why showing your work is the only way to have a meaningful discussion.

Thanks. I think it’s fixed now?

tbh, I haven’t seen any indication of that here or on the Discord. What am I missing?

I would also say the same thing for the Yuga games which have shockingly low user engagement. That also contributes to the lack of interest in utilizing $Ape for games, while so many games are built on other chains and coins. I was hoping to help change that with ApeCoin because I know what it’s like to be a niche and the underdog.

You may find this interesting. It was written a few days ago by a game industry vet.

I disagree. The ideas always come first and foremost. Without it, the execution is a pointless venture. They go hand in hand. That’s why even the best executed games can sometimes fail, and the best game ideas don’t get executed.

And that’s why my bio link is in my profile, and I wrote a long intro in the thread that I posted above.

Migrated from this thread.

@WInchance10 @BeastNode

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I know that a lot is happening this week following the elections, as well as setting up AA etc. However, I would like to solicit additional comments for this before deciding whether or not this is something worth pursuing.

Like most, I have very strong convictions that games (not Metaverse chat rooms) are the path forward. To that end, as mentioned above, I have two completed games that I am considering releasing in a Web2/Web3 manner, of which the latter determines which community and chain I utilize.

If the community isn’t interested in this, that’s OK too because it’s not detrimental to me. I just thought that it was a great, effective, and fast way to boost community engagement and $ape adoption. Obviously a great part of Web3 feels this way too; and not to mention Yuga’s own dedicated push into gaming.

If we’re going to grow the community beyond 127K hodlers, we need to build all the things. Being stagnant and complacent - even as the value of ape declines and adoption doesn’t grow - isn’t a path forward.

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@leyota Now that you say this, I am on the Fnatic community app and those communities are crazy about the MOBA games, they have live chatting during games. Thank you for pointing this out

@srinigoes I am responding to you only so that I can provide additional clarity to my previous statement:

I said :

“Also, MOBA games aren’t community driven in terms of the Metaverse (whatever that is these days) because they’re short-term engagements. I believe that multiplayer (e.g. MMO, live games etc) games are more in tune with communities and thus the Metaverse paradigm”

I just assumed that my above statement was self-explanatory. There, I was trying to draw comparisons between MMO and MOBA games as it pertains to the Metaverse communities. MOBA games, by their very nature, do not fit into that engagement type because they aren’t persistent. But yes, ofc all games and game genres have their communities.

I hope that clears that up. Regardless, it doesn’t matter now anyway, as I won’t be taking this to AIP because there seemingly isn’t enough engagement to move this forward within the DAO. It was just an idea. I will just adopt another token in the Web3 aspects of the games when they are released in 2024 and 2025 respectively. Plus, if I do make it into the MWG, some could perceive that as a conflict of interest.

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Hi @SmartAPE
I do agree that MMO games from their very strategic nature would lead to persistent engagement whereas the very tactical nature of MOBA games keeps the in game engagement short. You are OG gamers whereas I’m an occasional gamer, so you would have a better sense of what works for the Metaverse.
Thank you for the response

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Exactly! MMO games are the precursor of Metaverse engagements due to their persistent nature.

I see that someone keeps flagging my post and it got taken down again. I got even more feedback on the specific areas that were deemed too personal (thanks @Chris.Admin!) but I want to post again because at this point I feel like I’m getting censored for asking questions. I have fully rectified the mentioned feedback and post the rest here:

I already have two 100% completed multi-player Web2 games which took years and cost millions of Dollars to make. One is a fantasy MMO RPG and the other is a combined arms FPS.

Can you share more on this. I feel like substantial claims like this need to be backed up because anyone can make any claim.

As this is a commercial property, and with the DAO not setup to own assets or receive income, if this is something that the community is interested in doing, we would have to figure out how to fund it via the DAO.

Here you claim that the DAO is not setup to receive income and therefore the idea is an issue. But here you claim it can be worked around. How do you square the two?

Also, MOBA games aren’t community driven in terms of the Metaverse (whatever that is these days) because they’re short-term engagements. I believe that multiplayer (e.g. MMO, live games etc) games are more in tune with communities and thus the Metaverse paradigm.

Have you got into Dota or LoL? These games have some of the strongest communities and some of the most loyal fans. These are both MOBA games. Strong communities can be made within the MOBA category.

I have refrained from posting the names specifically because my goal is to first garner interest in the prospects of actually bringing the games to the ApeCoin community (which is much smaller than my game installs). To that end, that’s why I created this thread instead of doing an AIP (in which I would provide a lot more detail) and going from there. I don’t particularly want to put effort into doing an AIP if it’s likely to fail anyway. Plus, I was asked to apply to be a steward of the upcoming Metaverse Working Group; and with that, I don’t know how that would ultimately affect the AIP as there are no rules about that - yet.

I’d like to press on this. Have you made a modern game (last 10 years) that has a substantial user base that we can see? Is there a downside in telling us this?

If the community isn’t interested in this, that’s OK too because it’s not detrimental to me. I just thought that it was a great, effective, and fast way to boost community engagement and $ape adoption. Obviously a great part of Web3 feels this way too; and not to mention Yuga’s own dedicated push into gaming.

The community is interested in anyone that can show they have the ability to deliver on the claims made. It’s important to not only place weight on the proposer’s previous work, but also some of their more recent work. We need to see what can be possible.

The community would be thrilled if you posted videos or allowed us to demo the product you’ve spent millions developing. It would make the choice much easier rather than blindly agreeing to go ahead.

I think games have evolved significantly over the last 20 years and success in gaming is notoriously difficult. Will Wright for example created some amazing hits but Spore was a disaster for example. If you could show the community anything that could convince us the potential it would be helpful.

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Hi @SmartAPE ,

Your topic will be moving to the AIP Draft phase in less than 24 hours. Are you content with the feedback received or do you wish to extend community discussion for another 7 days?

If we do not hear from you within 48 hours after your topic closes, your topic will be moved straight to the AIP Draft process.

We look forward to hearing from you.

-12GAUGE

To the admin who is about to review this AIP idea before it closes, as I mentioned above, there’s no point in taking this to AIP as I don’t believe that there’s much interest in this idea.

Also, my analysis of similar gaming ideas - all of which have subsequently failed AIP - didn’t instill much faith that this would fare any better; especially given the skewed metrics of the DAO voting system not being based on number of voting wallets but on how much $Ape a voter has.

Though the DAO funding aspect would have been minimal (server, admin, deployment costs) and just geared towards the DAO having its own $Ape dedicated game server environment, licensing etc - similar to this Discourse, Discord etc. it would have been specifically for the community as I mentioned above. And through that, growing the APE community via the MMO RPG game, while merging it with traditional Web2 gamers, would have allowed an influx of Web2 & Web3 gamers who would have joined the community via the requirement that they have $Ape to join, trade, transact etc.

Nevertheless, hopefully if I do make it into the Metaverse Working Group, given my extensive background in the games industry, I can be more effective in helping to build the community via game (that’s my only interest) related partnerships, initiatives and activities.

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Hi ApeCoin DAO Community,

@SmartAPE has requested to withdraw their application. This AIP will be moved to and remain in the Withdrawn AIPs category.

Kind Regards,

-12GAUGE