AIP-316: Fantasy MMORPG Game - Powered Exclusively By ApeCoin

Hi all,

against my better judgment, and going with the general consensus based on discussions that I have been involved in these past weeks regarding this AIP, I have decided to revise it in the draft.

This means that instead of the AIP being a term license ($1M per year) in which the ApeCoin community would have a hands-on game to play with, help build, promote, have its own exclusive servers etc. and in which a significant portion of the funding goes back into the community, I am going to reduce it to a simple grant for the use of $APE token as the primary token used by the game.

It is conceivable that I may create supplemental AIPs around this project in the coming months, with a view to realizing my original [game licensing] vision which is a lot more impactful to ApeCoin and the $APE token.

It is my hope that you guys will still participate in the on-going activities regarding the game as the development progresses in the coming months.

That is all.

UPDATE: I have now made extensive revisions to the original AIP idea, taking it from a game license AIP to an $APE token use AIP.

To the see differences between the original AIP idea and the current draft, follow these steps:

  1. Go to the top page of AIP-316.
  2. To the top-right you will see an Orange pencil icon with the number 6. Click on that number to reveal the page diffs
  3. When the diff page opens in split-view, on the lower-left you will see several icons, one of which looks like 6 ↔ 7 /7. Click on the << icon to the left of the number 6. Repeat until you get to 2 ↔ 3 /7
  4. On the left of page 2 ↔ 3 /7 you will find the last version (#2) of the original detailed AIP idea which was based on a much more impactful game license AIP which encompasses not just the use of $APE, but also ApeCoin DAO community involvement in the project.

There are also supplemental pages to the AIP, most of which contain outlines of my original vision for the project here on ApeCoin. Below are easy access bookmarks to each one.

AIP-316, supplemental p1
AIP-316, supplemental p2
AIP-316, supplemental p3


Hi @SmartAPE,

Thank you for your ideas [and the ApeCoin DAO community for the insightful discussions]. A moderator will reach out to the author to finalize the AIP Draft using the appropriate template. In accordance with DAO-approved guidelines, if the author doesn’t respond within 30 days, the proposal will be automatically transferred to the Withdrawn category, and the author can re-submit the idea. Once the AIP is Drafted and meets all DAO-approved guidelines, it will be published on Snapshot for the official live voting phase at: Snapshot.

Follow this Topic as further updates will be posted here in the comments. @SmartAPE, please see your messages for the next steps.


This topic was automatically closed after 14 days. New replies are no longer allowed.

Hi ApeCoin DAO Community,

@SmartAPE has completed editing their AIP Idea to be their AIP Draft.

Follow this Topic as further updates will be posted here in the comments.

Kind Regards,


I have updated my prior post above to include additional info and links to my original AIP idea.

I want to add some closing thoughts:

First, below is the DAO’s gaming grant history. I have posted this before, but this chart has more context.

AIP-280, COST: 0
AIP-105, COST: $6K per year ( 1858 $APE value on 08/25/22)

AIP-219, COST: $100K (16,778 $APE value on 02/07/23)
AIP-179, COST: $55,885 (13,981 $APE value on 12/04/22)
AIP-103, COST: $45,270 (215,938 $APE value on 08/30/22)
AIP-78, COST: $216,450 (1M $APE value on 06/30/22)

My original idea for this AIP, and which started with my July 11th post idea was a test of the community’s pulse regarding its approach to gaming. The response from that original AIP idea wasn’t as expected, thus causing me to withdraw (I was new here, and I didn’t realize that a post tagged as an AIP idea could progress further) it with the following statement:

As the Metaverse Working Group, among other DAO initiatives, appeared to be stalled, I had some meaningful discussions with various people here, and which succeeded in convincing me to put up a game AIP regardless. And so, I decided to do this full-blown and comprehensive AIP on Aug 2nd.

As an artist who is a gamer first and a game dev second, I have always been very passionate about what I do. I see a vision - even if nobody else sees it - and I execute on that vision. It’s an instinct that has guided me through decades of industry and career upheavals, while insulating me from the industry wide shenanigans and drama. I have been able to succeed in making the games that I want to make because I frontload all the risk and subsequently reap the rewards of those risks. I’m basically the Leroy Jenkins of game dev. Or maybe this dude.

All kidding aside, I believe that my original AIP was the most impactful for the DAO because, unlike a hands-off grant approach where you take money and never to be seen again, it presented a unique opportunity for the community to engage and be involved in something that it could collab and build - together. As I posted in the comments and supplemental material above, it was also designed to create meaningful engagement and collab with other builder grantees who were fortunate enough to have their great ideas and aspirations realized by the community and thus voted into existence. Hence this costs breakdown (after I reduced the license term from 5 to 2 years).

Total Ecosystem Grant: $2M USD - to be paid in $APE

  • $250K (annual cost) - Alganon IP license use (2 year term, renewable)
  • $200K (one-time cost) - $APE token integration & smart contract dev
  • $300K (annual cost) - Server (x36) Equipment Procurement + Config/Setup (one-time cost)
  • $350K (annual cost) - Hiring & training of the ApeCoin Ambassadors team (12-16)

I didn’t come here looking for money for my game. I have made this crystal clear since the start. I came here to build a bridge between Web2 and Web3 gamers via a close-knit Web3 community which would end up with skin in the game and thus be incentivized to build and promote this project - together. I think a $2M AIP in which $1.3M goes back to the community should’ve been a clear signal that I wanted a lot more than what this current AIP now reflects. And those costs, even if the AIP were to pass, would have still been spent in those very same activities - except with people outside the community.

Also, I knew that the costs of doing this were likely insurmountable given the history of the DAO and the general attitude towards preserving the treasury because it is closely tied to investor’s stakes and incentives. Even as the value of $APE remains on a steady downward trend. You can read my general comments about this in my voting reform AIP - which is also destined to fail.

Games, good games, are high risk and very expensive to make. And the journey doesn’t stop when the game is released. Regardless of the game, it’s a constant iteration via updates, patches, additional content etc. to keep the community engaged and involved. All of which costs a lot of money. Even the largest publishers tend to sunset their live or multiplayer games after a certain number of years. Heck, EA has an entire page to track them.

My original AIP idea would not only have been a major impact on the community, but it would also have generated enough noise for even the most jaded gamer (Web2 or Web3) to - at least - take a peak; especially with my name attached to it.

If you don’t believe in something, not even a little bit, then you probably shouldn’t engage in it. For me, that is the way. Always.

And so, I am planning to withdraw this AIP forthwith because, even if it passes - and it’s not like I have a need for $500K - a grant just to use $APE in my game wasn’t in my original vision; or that’s the AIP that I would have written from the start. Further, as I said before, it’s not something that I had envisioned doing or I would have taken grants from any number of chains and crypto bros that have offered it to me since this Web3 project started back in 2021.

A LOT of you supported this AIP since its inception and across various updates and comments based on your input. Thanks for the assist and for believing in the project.


Sad to see this get pulled, but I totally understand and agree with the motivations to do so.


Quick update:

As I continue to discuss various alternative options (incl. splitting my original vision into separate AIPs as the project progresses*) with some of my trusted friends here about what to do going forward, and with the general consensus being to send it to vote regardless, I have now notified the facilitators not to send this AIP to admin review for now, as I don’t want to waste the foundation’s time in the event that I do end up withdrawing it.

I know that this isn’t what most of you who worked with me on this AIP were expecting, but I expect that you understand where I’m coming from with this.

*I will share some info about this as a plan formulates

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Disappointed that this won’t continue through the process but acknowledge your words and trust your judgement Derek!!!


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Incredibly impressed with the the level of detail. It’s a lot to process and looking forward to seeing where this lands and your next steps.

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…and just like that, this appears…


  • HR Section for Approved AIP -
    • Only authors of approved AIPs can create threads to recruit candidates.
    • This section will enable specialists who support a particular AIP to join the team and contribute to the common cause.

My original $2M AIP was designed specifically to do this, at a cost of $1.3M going back into the community via hiring and training of ApeCoin Ambassadors. And it wasn’t just money; those 12-16 people hired by project, would have been trained by us, have a published game in their resume, gained experience into the gamedev process - all made possible by the ApeCoin DAO. Just as I have done for over three decades at my studio.

I am going to find a way to do what I originally envisioned because I strongly believe that it’s worth doing. Plus, I want to prove a point, and be able to say, I told you so.

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After speaking with several people about this, I have decided to move this trimmed AIP forward and so, I will be responding to the Ape Foundation questions sent to me yesterday regarding its implementation etc.

While I still believe that my original AIP was of more significant impact by way of community engagement, and less risky, I am going to split that original vision into multiple parts which will require additional AIPs down the road. It’s a lot riskier due to the young nature of the DAO, crypto regulations uncertainty in the coming months etc. But it is what it is.

The concepts below were part of the original AIP. I don’t want to complicate things by restoring them from the edits, so please follow the guidelines here to get more details (from the 2 ↔ 3 /8 diffs) about each item that no longer appears in the revised and trimmed AIP that is now AIP-316.

1 (AIP-316)

  • Task: Use $APE as the exclusive game crypto token during the term of the license, and promote as an official crypto token for the game via marketing and in-game branding.
  • Term: 1 year (renewable upon request by Ape Foundation within 90 days of current term expiration). More info in AIP-316.
  • Dependencies: N/A
  • Cost: $300K (annual) + $200K (one-time) - in $APE

2 (AIP-TBD1)

  • Task: Build in-game ApeLand continent /w bridge to main game continents; and also, for an additional per user cost, implement (with license permission from Yuga Labs & Animoca Brands) in-game 2D/3D playable character avatars for both brands. More info here
  • Term: N/A
  • Dependencies: AIP-316
  • Cost: $500K (one-time) + TBD one-time per user cost - in $APE

3 (AIP-TBD2)

  • Task: Provision exclusive bare-metal game servers (12 clusters, x36 servers) for ApeCoin DAO and Mocaverse gamers. North America only. More info in “Server Notes” below.
  • Term: 1 year (renewable upon request by Ape Foundation within 90 days of current term expiration)
  • Dependencies: AIP-316, AIP-TBD3
  • Cost: $300K (annual) - in $APE

4 (AIP-TBD3)

  • Task: Screen, hire and train (12-16 contractors) from the ApeCoin DAO & Mocaverse communities to act as Game Masters and CS exclusively for the ApeCoin DAO & Mocaverse community servers above. More info in diff 2 ↔ 3 /8
  • Term: 1 year (renewable based on AIP-TBD2)
  • Dependencies: AIP-316, AIP-TBD2
  • Cost: $350K (annual) - in $APE

3 servers = 1 cluster

1 cluster = 1 game server “set”

1 cluster can host 5,000 clients depending on config, and consists of a database, proxy, and game server.

Each cluster “talks” to another cluster that’s like the God of the land of servers. And they all have a failsafe fallover.

So, 36 servers is just 12 clusters hosting (12 x 5000 clients) = 60,000 players. That’s not even half of the ApeCoin token holders.

Please note that the AIPs are no longer based on a game license as was originally intended. Instead, they are now designed around what the community wants to do. So, if AIP-316 passes, that’s all that is currently needed for the game to support the token for the term listed. Nothing else.

All additional AIPs are optional and can be written up by anyone as-needed using my guidelines above. For example. If Asian game servers (as per AIP-TBD2) are required, the Asian community can write-up their AIP based on my guidelines above. And if it passes, the author(s) can contact me to discuss obtaining a license to operate (on their own servers, using their own team etc) the game in their territories. This is assumes no other such license exists for the desired territory, because once we sign licensing deals with third-parties for their territories, they will be exclusive to that party until the term expires.

A license to operate the game in any territory can be applied for by any interested parties and is subject to the standard contractual and KYC requirements.

The game is already fully localized; and the costs of implementing localized (text + art) content is paid for by the licensee in addition to the license fee.


Hi ApeCoin DAO Community,

@SmartAPE has responded to our questions and has provided consent to share them in this forum for the community.

1. Is the Ape Foundation expected to engage in any of the steps of the AIP implementation? If so, please specify the steps and elaborate on how it is expected to work.

There are no steps required by the Ape Foundation. However, if this AIP passes, we would require explicit permission (perhaps by way of an ApeCoin agreement) to use the ApeCoin logo and branding assets during the term of the AIP.

2. Since your game would require token holders to connect wallets, what are the plans for security audits?

As mentioned in the AIP, we are using a third-party middleware Web3 tech suite (powered by Altura), which, like Yuga Labs and my studios, is also located down here in south Florida. To that end, the Web3 marketplace - which will be alongside the pre-existing Web2 marketplace - will be powered by the Altura white label marketplace. And so, being a part of the (audited) Altura tech suite, external wallets will be connected via Altura Guard II which bridges and secures them. Regardless, we will be using CertiK for on-going audits of all our Web3 processes as they develop and evolve. We already do similar security audits for our transactional Web2 games.

3. You’ve stated that “The creation, testing, implementation and auditing of the smart contract and $APE token will take place during the course of the game’s Web3 implementation.” Who will be responsible for these tasks?

My studio alongside third-party partners (as per above) will be responsible for those tasks. We also have SOW and contracts for oversight and advisory with KapitalDAO/KapGames. We will also be engaging the Blaize Tech team for specific Web3 related activities on an on-going as-needed basis. NOTE: the final game release will be distributed and published through the crypto-friendly Epic Game Store - instead of Steam where it originally was - and thus will use the EGS wallet system. Prior to that, for on-going dev and testing - we will continue to use Xsolla payment system which the game already supports as noted here.

4. Do you have any estimated costs for users to use the platform’s features, or any premium features?

Yes. For monetization, the game supports both the pre-existing Web2 (fiat) as well as a supplemental eth based Web3 crypto token (TBD). Use of a crypto token comes at a discount incentive. If this AIP passes, for the term (and any subsequent renewals) stated in the AIP, that token will exclusively be $APE.To that end, the game’s re-launch is purely B2P (no F2P option) at a fixed cost of $19.99 USD which will be discounted if using a crypto token. For example $19.99 or 8 $APE to enter and play the game. As noted in the AIP, the game also supports in-game micro-transactions (MT) of varying costs and features. These can be bought and traded in both fiat and crypto as-needed. The pre-existing prices range from $2.00 to $19.99.We will also be creating various “kits” containing some in-game items as well as in-game currency (TRIBUTE) which will range from $9.99 to $49.99 in cost. These will be heavily discounted as an incentive to buy in the supported crypto token. e.g. $9.99 vs 2 $APE. NOTE: There are currently no planned loot boxes or pre-mint activities for the game, and thus no associated costs there. It’s not that type of game. If AIP-TBD1 were to ever be created and passed, there would be TBD costs associated with the creation of NFT based avatars as game characters.

5. Do you provide consent to share these questions and answers with the community in this forum?


A DAR package is being worked on and upon completion this AIP will move into Administrative Review. Follow this Topic as further updates will be posted here in the comments.

Kind Regards,



Hi ApeCoin DAO Community,

We have no further questions for @SmartAPE. This AIP is now under Administrative Review.

Follow this Topic as further updates will be posted here in the comments.

Kind Regards,


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Hi SA,

This is extensive, and so are all the replies - nice job!

I have to quote IllaDaProducer and what he often says re games and the DAO - “More shots on goal”. This is without doubt one of those instances - if we don’t try how can we ever score that goal!

Tl;dr - watching this closely and wish you all the best SA.

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With more than 20 years experience working in the online gaming (MMORPG) industry, this game is a hard NO for me. I wouldn’t consider publishing this game even if it’s 2013.

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Imagine how the investors who funded it from start to finish over 14 years - and to a x11.36 ROI - would have felt if the original devs had given up.

There’s a reason that publishers and investors alike pass or take on projects. And you don’t need 20 (!) yrs experience to make a good or bad call. A lot of games (esp Web3) game projects with exceptionally experienced teams and savvy publishers/investors have failed (and continue to do so) spectacularly.

One size never fits all or there would be no hits or misses.

And I am all but certain that, if true that you have 20 (!) yrs of experience in the MMORPG industry, given the number of those games that have been published during that time span, there are failures in that list of games that you were involved in. Do you have a list of those MMORPG games that you have 20 yrs experience in? We can take this to DM so as to avoid going off-topic in this AIP.

I do have a long list of the games that I’ve published over the years :sweat_smile: Some successes and many failures. EverQuest II back in 04 that i would’ve considered a failure, and the ones that i think we did pretty well include Lineage (PC and mobile), Maple Story, Mabinogi, Counter Strike Online, etc. You can look them up online in terms of performances.

You are right that no one needs decades of experience to make any call, but yrs of experiences do help me to look for details and red flags when it comes to picking games for publishing.

You are welcome to DM me if you need any help.

PS. x11.36 ROI over a 14 years old product is not very impressive in the world of MMORPG publishing.


Having been around for so long, I am well aware of all those games. That said, only in a AAA world would a game like EQ II be considered a failure. heh. Also, those titles are by different teams/corps. So, if it’s true that you were involved, then you must be in an Asian parent that sub-licenses games.

Which brings me to the ROI. This was a small indie company by a small group of angel investors that set out to create a WoW clone. They succeeded in doing just that. And for the money spent, 11.36x (in an 6.3x - 10x avg world) is a very good ROI, you must admit. Obviously not the norm for AAA let alone AA investments which tend to cost a lot more and thus require must larger margins and ROI. Also, they never released the game outside of North America, which impacted it’s reach, revenue and ROI. For the amount of money that it was making, way more than it cost to operate, my buying it was a no-brainer.

Regardless, this AIP isn’t about publishing the game. It’s about which token to adopt, and no different from any number of bundling type partnership deals the industry tends to make, for example with audio or video card vendors. Whether or not the AIP fails, the game is still going to get re-released - and with some token or another.

You r right that I’m looking at this from a AAA world perspective since I’ve been involved with AAA products & AAA partners most of the time, hence I consider EQII a flop.

It’s not about either this AIP is trying to adopt Apecoin or publishing the game. Since you are applying for a grant, asking money from the DAO, it’s reasonable to evaluate the product from a business point of view, right?

And by me saying I wouldn’t consider publishing this game, meaning that I don’t think this decade old game will be a success in the future and it won’t benefit Apecoin. That’s just my professional opinion.

If this game is still currently operating, you should provide all the recent (recent 6-12 months) data points to Apecoin Council for review. Data like MAU, login time, paid member / ratio, ARPU etc. It will be useful for us to determine if this game can benefit us by adopting Apecoin.

Apecoin Council should do a proper DD, providing evaluation report & explaining numbers to everyone before voting. That’s fair to everyone, right?