AIP-508: Update AIP Tracking Data

Active Proposals AIP Drafts
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PROPOSAL NAME

Update AIP Tracking Data

TEAM DESCRIPTION

@SmartAPE | DAO member [Trust Level 3] | writer-of-many-words

I am an indie software developer who has been in the games industry as a gamer and game dev for over 40 years. I have designed, developed, and published over a dozen games during my career.

My first game, Battlecruiser 3000AD (aka BC3K), was a ground-breaking game that was ahead of its time. Published by Take Two interactive in 1996, it was one of their portfolio titles when they went public in 1997. So, you could say that I helped the company succeed to where it is today.

Over the decades, I have worked with some of best software developers and publishers around the world, and my works have been featured in various online and print magazines around the world.

I am also a lifetime member of the International Game Developers Association, and was Florida chapter board member for several years.

You can learn more about me on my professional LinkedIn page.

PROPOSAL DESCRIPTION

This proposal requires the updating of the pre-existing AIP tracking and funding tables previously updated regularly by the prior secretary, @Vulkan.Admin

The previous secretary, in addition to maintaining an active newsletter, also religiously updated the AIP tracker which gave the DAO community immediate insight to status of all AIPs as well as their disbursement. You can view Vulcan’s activity to get an idea of how much time and effort went into that effort.

Some AIP trackers maintained by the previous secretary:

As you can see, these reports stopped being updated following the resignation of the previous secretary, @Vulkan on Mar 31, 2024.

It would fall to the Foundation to determine which party is best suited to handling this, if not the GWG or the Secretary.

BENEFIT TO APECOIN ECOSYSTEM

These reports are required because they give a clear at-a-glance look at the proposals that come through the DAO, and are essential to our understanding of the DAO’s operations due to the fact that any/all operations are conducted via this very same AIP process.

STEPS TO IMPLEMENT

  1. Within 7 days of this proposal passing the aforementioned AIP tracking reports are to be updated to include any/all missing AIP data.

  2. Going forward, until other processes are created to handle this, the data is to be updated within 48hrs following the completion of a voting period.

  3. For visibility, until other processes are created to handle this, all 4 of the trackers mentioned above to be linked to and pinned in the secretary’s section here on Discourse.

REPORTING EXPECTATIONS

The expectation is that this proposal would be implemented by the DAO’s administrative team. The community should regularly review the impact of this proposal. If accepted, the administration and the community should review the impact of the updates after the 3-month period for conflict ends.

OVERALL COST

Total amount requested from the ApeCoin Ecosystem Fund = No Cost.

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We could take this on without the AIP brotha… Good thing to do.

@LiveFast9986 @jarisjames and @BojangleGuy all have the knack for this. Great suggestion btw; let’s make this happen :muscle::muscle:

AC

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Thanks. The reason that I wrote up an AIP is because I had a similar request in AIP-497: Restore Elections Data Visibility whereby…

I asked this question:

“So, is there any reason why we need a vote on something that you guys changed without a vote or am I missing something?”

And received this response:

“With respect to your question, the organization of the forum falls within our purview, but community-requested specifications (like the one outlined here) would be subject to a review process before implementation.”

And so, I just assumed that this request would fall under the same guidelines.

Nevertheless, you guys can still update it as you have offered, but I would still like the AIP to go forward and ratify it so that we don’t have this discussion again down the road when someone - who is actually paying attention - notices the lapse in updates.

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Copy… Also random timing for all these proposal posts.

Keep an eye in here for some GWG related content I’ve been working on for the last couple of days :ok_hand: :ok_hand:

AC

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I’m going to throw my thoughts into this:

This AIP appears to be adding more requirements to the DAO secretary position without the flexibility of being able to utilize better tools or programs that can be used to better aggregate and present this type of data.

These specific tools, e.g. Dune and AirTable, require significant manual input and are prone to error (Dune - The Bulletin Board is currently rife with errors).

Not to speak on behalf of @BojangleGuy, but I doubt he is as passionate about this or wants to actively pursue such a data heavy and aggregate such significant data, when he is currently busy with other tasks and responsibilities. While this information is important, it was more of a gift from Vulkan more than a duty of the DAO Secretary IMO.

The data that you are looking for can be better aggregated, compiled, and even automated (to a certain degree) with enough time and resources, and also include more interesting data points.

I have been working on this exact project for quite some time now, in my spare time, and even put in an application towards the GWG small grants fund to help pay for better tools and the creation of automaton scripts to help make this easier. I am hoping to have the MVP released soon with all of the relevant data that you are looking, plus more, soon.

Here is a brief screenshot of what I have so far

image
image3357Ă—1110 352 KB

Even with this simple table, this is incredibly more granular, versatile, flexible, transparent, and verifiable than the Dune dashboard.

Overall, as someone who has spent an incredibly amount of time on this, for something as significant and important as this, it would be better suited to hire someone to focus on developing and maintaining this information than to add this to the list of responsibilities of the DAO secretary.

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It wasn’t an issue for the previous secretary who did it quite well - and who used the tools that he wanted to use and which worked just fine. What’s your point, exactly?

Why yes, ofc lets go build a better mouse trap. I look forward to reading the AIP.

This wasn’t written for him in particular.

And this data is something that some of us have come to rely upon. It just so happens that our previous secretary took upon himself to create it - and without all the complaints that you are levying here.

And I am all but certain that you have zero insight into tasks that the secretary is involved with and which would somehow be disrupted as a result of updating tables. It’s not rocket science. Aside from the fact that this sort of data collation is well within the purview and mandate of the secretary position. If you don’t think so, please explain what functions you see the secretary role performing if not this.

Will you be building it, then? And will it be as clear and efficient as the treasury dashboard?

Nevertheless, unless and until we go build a better mouse trap, this data is required by the DAO community. And it needs to be maintained by the DAO. Not volunteers. The DAO. It doesn’t matter who does it, if not the secretary. I only wrote this up because it just happened to be the secretary who took upon himself to do it because he felt that it was within his purview as, oh I dunno, the “secretary to the DAO”.

Essential Reading

NEW DAO Secretary: BojangleGuy

REF @ para4

“Bojangle will work closely with GWG Stewards on various fronts on top of traditional Secretary duties, including developing new initiatives and maintaining existing ones, and we’re looking forward to having him fully integrated as quickly as possible. Keeping that in mind, it’s worth noting that he’s already hit the ground running, working with Vulkan to understand certain processes from a high-level perspective as contracts are being finalized.”

Approved AIP Milestone Tracker

REF @ para1

“On Mondays I’ll use this thread to provide updates on the Milestone Tracker, a tool used to track progress of Approved AIP Milestones and provide a data point to encourage follow-up with authors of approved AIPs.”

AIP results / follow-up system?

REF @ comment09

“These are great suggestions, thanks! I can look to add these in but while you wait the Milestone Tracker has some of the information you mentioned (not a % but a breakdown).”

REF @ comment40

“Yes, we haven’t really had anyone tracking these things before. It is one of the items I’ll be working on as part of my “DAO Secretary mandate.” Hopefully this will bring clarity and transparency to the progress authors make during and after the implementation phase.”

Nobody knew about it until you posted that. And you didn’t create a thread which we could chat in and opine on it. If you had, though I would still have written this proposal, at least I would know that you were secretly building a better mouse trap which you hope to unveil - one day.

I really don’t care about that rn because it’s not ready; and until now, I had no idea that it even existed.

And you said had applied for a GwG grant to build it - and to be paid for doing so. What’s the issue, then? Is it because if the secretary were to continue doing this then there would be no need to pay you to do it?

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Are you talking about what LiveFast9986 has been working on (above), and which for some unknown reason has been kept a secret? If so, when will it be live, ready and useful? If you think that it does the job, then I have no problem withdrawing this proposal as you have also said that you GwG guys would update those tables anyway. I assume that you would be updating the tables pending whatever comes out of what he is working on.

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Hi Derek,

Good to see you getting proactive again on the process improvement ideas. Please see below for comments…

I was referring to the Q2 report I’ve been working on that I just posted under my admin account, and the Secretary update that Bojangle posted from his admin account earlier:

Also unclear what you’re referring to with regard the GWG working with @LiveFast9986 in any sort of undisclosed, secretive manor. We’re quite public about how proud we are to have had the opportunity of collaborating with Livefast on multiple levels:

And as an APE_U Coach:

May need some help on this one fam… Which tables are we referring to here, and are you sure that was me who commented on them with regard to an update? Definitely possible, but needing a refresher.

AC

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Note: I am not here to defend, be difficult, or have any malice intent towards your idea or you comments. Just want to share my opinion as best as I can with my own take (which very well can be wrong).

Well, your AIP is stating this:

I just wanted to point out that these tools kind of suck because they are more manually driven and I believe that while the data is important, maybe we shouldn’t hold ourselves to this specific tool, but rather being able to provide the data.

I’m not fully entrenched with his day-to-day, but my argument towards that this was a gift is Vulkan is based on the the fact that the Bulletin Board isn’t run by the GWG and was part of his own personal newsletter.

As for the milestone and follow-up system, we do have the AIP Execution and Transparency - ApeCoin DAO and Implemented AIPs - ApeCoin DAO which also act as alternatives to the AirTable data, with the tag feature on discourse being utilized a bit more to help with this type of issue.

I am and I like to believe it will be.

I agree but also slightly disagree in that if its volunteer then there can provide unbiased opinions about it and give it more transparency, but it is an incredibly undertaking given the scale of the DAO so having the DAO compensate for it is really helpful.

This is very valid criticism, and it wasn’t out of malice or anything. I made a few comments in the discord general chat about working on this, and it was even mentioned in the GWG x Livefast Historical AIP Voting Analysis With Alternate Strategies that we are looking at this. But you are right, I didn’t and I could/should have. Also, didn’t we converse in DM that I was doing this? If not, my apologies.

Not really an issue, more of just waiting to see if it’s accepted. One of the questions on the application is what happens if I don’t get the grant. Which is basically that I will continue to build it out at my leisure.

If the secretary wanted to take on all of this, then by all means they can. Speaking from experience, it is an incredible time-sink and its a lot of information and data, but they are more than welcome to it. I just think that as someone who has worked on getting and doing something similar, it was worth mention the possibility of just delegating this out.

I think I addressed everything, please let me know if I missed something or if there was anything i need to clarify.

All the best.

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To clarify, what you’re proposing is not “well within the purview and mandate of the secretary position” as outlined in the Working Group Charter.

And even if it were, an AIP would most certainly not be necessary, as it would fall under their official day-to-day duties.

Screenshot 2024-08-15 at 4.55.32 AM
Screenshot 2024-08-15 at 4.55.32 AM1594Ă—1575 400 KB

I should also note that our current DAO Secretary, BojangleGuy, does far more than what’s listed in the Charter, and under direct contract with the GWG, with an additional scope outlined in that document.

Lastly, to quasi-circle back to my initial comment in this thread, all of this is moot because I know for a fact that he would have no problem taking on this task — while still agreeing with Livefast that there could also be room for additional aid.

Vulkan was a great asset to the DAO, with a passion for analytics, which is why he often posted them (graciously). However, he was also a grant recipient for his Bulletin Bored newsletter, which was often the actual source of that content.

Some food for thought :+1::+1:

AC

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Thanks! I’m always pro-active because I pay attention. :rofl:

Nice! I read all that. Some questions:

" * Transparency and Communication: Publish monthly Secretary reports, maintain an up-to-date DAO organizational chart and tend to day-to-day GWG bookkeeping needs"

  1. Does this mean that the secretary is no longer going to take on the responsibility of updating these AIP tables?

  2. Does the secretary know that it’s his responsibility to update the organizational chart? FYI, several months after the elections, ApeCoin for the Web3 Economy still shows this:

apecoin_sc

  1. Does this mean that the secretary is going to now resume providing the financial transparency reports which was the impetus for my writing this proposal? APE Foundation DAO Transparency Reports

Ah yeah. What I meant there is nothing on Discourse that says he was working on a better way to show this data.

As you’re aware, I already knew about that voting analysis data which he did back in June because I commented on it as in: "This is great"

I am confused by your mentioning the voting analysis data. Unless I am missing something, it has anything to do with this proposal that we’re discussing.

And as today was the first time that I am even being made aware that such a thing exists, hence the term “secret”. Usually, when someone is building and/or working on something like this, we, the community, tend to know about it so that we can opine on it. For example see memebrains treasury dashboard which was spawned from an all-encompassing idea/proposal.

I was referring this your comment here and quoted below. The tables being referred to are those that I listed in the proposal and which Vulcan used to maintain.

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No worries. I didn’t think so. I just didn’t want to be seen as “making more work” for someone when I wasn’t. I was just going by the status quo of what the secretary had been doing and which is now no longer being done.

They only suck because they’re not automatic, and have to be done manually. As a dev, we are in agreement in this regard. But unless and until something better (like what you are building) comes along, it’s what we have.

There’s no way of knowing what is official and which is personal if the newsletter - which I read religiously because I’m a data guy - has the ApeCoin branding on it, and comes from the domain. And so, for all intent and purposes, unless it was stated as being a personal effort, there’s no way for anyone to know this. I certainly didn’t know that - until now.

They’re not being updated. What’s your point?

The community can opine on such efforts whether or not they are official or volunteer projects.

And yes ofc the DAO should pay to have it built and maintained. That’s no different from any other platform here e.g. the treasury dashboard.

No apologies needed. Glad that you understood where I was coming from with that. I tend to be super efficient and tend to notice stuff like this because, though on the autism spectrum, according to my wife, friends, and peers, my brain is just wired wrong. :rofl:

Anyway, I am glad that somebody, anybody, is working on a more efficient data extraction tool. I’ve seen your work, and so, I am confident that whatever you come up with, will do precisely what we expect it to do. Then I can stop complaining about it. :stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye:

Make sense. I don’t see why GwG won’t give you a grant to build this very important tool. If you don’t get the grant, please DM me.

I agree. But the tool you’re building is far more efficient - and goes beyond what the secretary was doing manually. However, seeing as it’s only a few tables remaining to be updated since the last update, hopefully the GwG will update those manually for now until your tool is ready.

All good here. I do wish that I had known about your tool before now.

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As per this discussion, if GwG ends up giving @LiveFast9986 the grant to build and maintain his data extraction tool, there would be no need for this proposal. In which case, I will move to withdraw it once I know more about the disposition of the requested grant.

Also, @LiveFast9986 do you have a link to your grant proposal which you can post here for me?

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This is why I spent a considerable amount of time showing where the secretary himself had opted to take on those duties regardless of his official mandate. That’s not uncommon for people who either like what they do or like to volunteer to do things that nobody otherwise asked or forced them to do.

Agreed. But as I pointed out above, I created this proposal as a result of another response to another data related proposal. I was informed that a proposal was required.

That’s great to know. For me, our previous secretary was far more visible via his newsletter, tweets, data analysis and maintenance etc.

Nice! Glad to hear it. :muscle:

Indeed. And we miss him so very much.

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I don’t actually have a public link to send you. I’ll DM you the information to move the conversation off this thread.

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As a result of the comments in the thread, I have updated the proposal to remove this tasking from the secretary’s purview.

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Hi @SmartAPE,

The community feedback period for your proposal would be ending in less than 24 hours.

  • If you’re content with the feedback received, your next steps are to finalize your proposal using the AIP Draft Template.

  • A moderator will reach out to the author to finalize the AIP Draft. Upon receipt of the final Draft, we will review and provide instructions on the next steps.

  • Are you ready to proceed to the next phase or do you wish to extend community discussion for another 7 days?

We look forward to hearing from you.

-@Facilitators

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Yes, this too is ready to go to draft. ty

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